Scanian8

Join Date 11/2009

Facing the Threat of the Drath

In my usual games (medium/large map size, ToA 2.04, 5/9 opponents, painful difficulty) the Drath never seem to be a major factor in my games but their special ability manages to be quite difficult to deal with. As of the last 5 games I have played, the Drath have survived quite far into the game, but are only managing to barely hang on. Thus, they become a perfect target for my war efforts (not to mention they have been close to my borders all these games, and they tend to dislike my tendency towards evil...might as well get rid of them while I can). The problem is, this race is great at getting those bigger civs that I would rather avoid for a while to declare war on me. Has anyone found a good way to maybe disble their diplomatic abilities to persuade others to war against you? i.e.- Disabling their economy somehow, reducing their relations with others, making yourself appear insanely powerful (via SBAs), or just accepting the new warring civs only to later declare peace after the Drath have been removed?

My usual approach has been the last option, eliminating the Drath and then suing for peace from the civs that are more powerful than myself (I have found suing for peace in the middle of a war with the Drath only leads the civ to declare war again 1-3 turns later). This strategy works fine, but I am wondering if therfe are slightly more efficient strategies as this strategy has occasionally left me losing more planets to the stronger civs than I had gained from my war with the Drath.

Thanks for the help,

-Scanian

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Hi!

IMO you have 3 options:

1) Don't include Drath in your game.

2) Mod them to have some other special ability.

3) If they're small, wipe them out in one single turn. Needs more preparation, but after you conquer their planets, they're proclaimed dead. No more messing with their fleets, SBs, and special ability.

BR, iztok

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Maiden666

Join Date 12/2008

+62

Well, actually this is really hard to predict from map to map, but there are some things you could do to baffle/dodge their SA or the consequences that arise out of their SA.

First, try to get a good relationship to them - they might focus on others then.

Second, hand out your treaties to one or two of those big races you don't want to battle against. In all likelihood they won't break it.

Get some alliances. Once the Drath persuade others into a war against you the galaxy will be on fire; but try to keep away from war. This will weaken all other races and ultimately give you an egde.

If you can built the SCC - do it. Have strong military ships beside, and once races declare war on you (and you can contact again) fly those ships under the SCC and offer peace for planets/cash.

However, notice that a strong MilRating won't save you from their SA, esp. if you are evil-aligned.

There's no way you can block them to contact the other civs. You could hand all other civs your yellow-diplomacy techs, and by that, decrease the Drath's efforts a bit - but it won't hold for long til the Drath's get these as well, and in fact, will do you more damage as is gained.

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qrtxian

Join Date 03/2010

+30

Another possibility could be to try to beat them at their own game by bribing wars between them and other civilizations. With any luck, they'll focus their SA against the other civilizations rather then on you. The best way to do this would be to get them to fight the Altarians so that the Altarian SA causes the other good races to fight them, but this might be hard because they and the Altarians share an alignment.

The BEST way to deal with the Drath, as Iztok said, is to wipe them out in a single turn. Be advised, though, if you don't quite finish them off, 2 or 3 other races will be bribed against you next turn.

I also like the idea of creating alliances against them, but that's partially just because I love big galactic wars.

BTW, in my experience AIs will not give you planets for peace unless they are extremely outmatched or you're about to conquer the planet anyway.

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Maiden666

Join Date 12/2008

+62

Quoting qrtxian,

reply 3

As regards the SCC, one of my favorite ways to quickly boost my military rating is to rush-buy a 'paper tiger' cargo hull loaded with weapons at the planet with the SCC. My military score has gone up as much as thirty points sometimes.

BTW, in my experience AIs will not give you planets for peace unless they are extremely outmatched or you're about to conquer the planet anyway.

If you have a good ratio of own MilRating vs the AI's then a peace treaty is of the highest thinkable value to any AI. You'll get everything that he owns, including his wife.

However, that deal can also be bungled, esp. if you've previously shattered your own trustworthyness, or lack sufficient diplo-rating. The game offers alot of ways to play it, which includes also the possibility to lock ones own doors shut.

Best way to max this ratio early on is to put Cargo Hulls carrying one weapon and the rest either ZPA or ADS; which are techs that can be researched much faster than any weapon of same power. 30 points are not sufficient IMO.

For the trick to really kick in means also to keep the AI MR low, best by simply buying his ships, which is easy in DA/TA with the right diplo-rating.

And the internal way how the AI values his own belongings is also a topic on its own, as there are quite of few contradictive traits. However, one thing is sure, the AI doesn't know about your intents to invade a planet - but he will consider an unguarded planet less important as a guarded one (even if there are only unarmed ships in orbit)

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@IztokBitenc

1)Awwwww, c'mon now Plus, if anyone is getting the boot its those darn Torians...I am sick of invading full pop planets.

2)Looking to keep it in the Metaverse..but just to continue this thought...Can I create my own special abilities by modding? Is it easy?

3)I have been trying this strategy with some success..The problem is that late in the game I find this to be impossible, I never have that kind of quantity of Transports. I am exceptionally curious as to how you, and others, are able to have such a massive fleet in later stages. (Being that many others also play Gigantic maps I would love to hear your thoughts...building and positioning such a massive fleet without my plans being somehow interrupted is a far away dream for me)

My usual strategy involves concentrating a lot on research after the initial colony rush. After this I will work up my social and then finally begin work on a good fleet of small ships with powerful weapons, enough to keep me at the upper half of the military ratings. I then work that fleet towards my first target who usually has no warships whatsoever. While this fleet moves I begin work on Transports on any planets that can complete one within 3-5 weeks (This is probably my biggest mistake...I build the vanilla transports. I have tried building a cargo hull transport with life support to reach the destination...but cost comes close so I just don't bother anymore. Maybe spend a few more turns to build up Life Support and then use hulls with transports only?). Once I have enough to hit 2-3 of the enemy's planets he has started to work on military and may become competetive so I am forced to hit...He falls and the game moves on, at least best case scenario. Hope you can pick through my problems with that short description...

@Maiden666

I guard those treaties like they are planets...I had never really considered using them to prevent a war. Do the advantages they gain from my economy/research really begin to stack up though? I don't want the leader to just keep climbing further and further from my reach...

I had always wondered about this, so I am glad you bring up the alliances. I have noticed that when I am looking to avoid wars alliances are best ignored. Whenever I enter into an alliance, it is in all likelyhood not the military leader and then this race is soon drawn into a war it can't win, dragging my race into the mix as well. Is this how it usually works for everyone? Any way to power up these alliances? (The only times I have allied with powerful races is when I have been obviously in control of the game)

Trading my Diplo techs is definately a new idea....It'll be a rare moment, but nice to keep in mind.

@qrtxian

I don't know how I missed the 'Paper Tiger' strategy...that is going to do wonders for boosting military ratings. Is there any way to actually use these guys if it all hits the fan? Maybe fleeting them all and building a medium class ship with heavy defenses and a fleet module to join them?

My thanks to everyone, all your posts have been helpful. Sadly, the Drath have decided not to show up in my last two games, but third time's a charm.

-Scanian

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Regarding making “paper tiger” cargo hulls actually useful, because of how the game decides the initial targets in fleet combat, the paper tiger cargo hulls are not going to survive a firefight (unless you are a Super Warrior, and even then they are likely to fail against a significant fleet). In actual combat, these ships are the equivalent of kamikaze planes.

That having been said, putting a number of them in orbit w/ the SCC will make your military ranking sky rocket and you’ll obtain a lot elbow room from the AI.

If you actually need to make the hulls useful, you can refit them as transports or anything else you for which you would normally use a cargo hold.

You can, of course, do something similar by loading up a large hull to the gills with weapons, and that would actually be an effective in a fight and could be refitted to another warship design, but it will be more costly than using cargo hulls.

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qrtxian

Join Date 03/2010

+30

One effective use of the "paper tigers" is against Dread Lords. This certainly isn't a common situation, but with Dread Lords, the ship will most likely die anyway, so the 1 hp doesn't really hurt... I'm not sure, however, having only played DL, whether this will work with the revised combat system in the expansions. The other use for them is picking off "soft targets" - unarmed starbases and unescorted transports. The latter in particular are rare, but in at least one case ("The Great Altarian Turkey Shoot"), a lone paper tiger picked off six or more transports before being destroyed.

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1)Awwwww, c'mon now Plus, if anyone is getting the boot its those darn Torians...I am sick of invading full pop planets

It is good to have the Torian's in the game for several reasons.

1. They usually expand rapidly, and have lots of techs and BCs to trade, plus low diplomacy

2. Although they may appear formidable, they do poorly in mid to late game. They leave alot of their planets empty. (not even a star port)

3. Dratha and Terrans both have high diplomacy, and are very difficult to deal with. (and very overpowered if you play them, although Dratha have to be good to get the full power of their tech tree.)

4. Altarians and Yor are also a bit difficult to deal with, but generally harmless. (The Altarians are very formidable if they achieve good alignment and research that tech tree.)

Anyway, hope this helps!

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Quoting IztokBitenc,

reply 1

Hi!

IMO you have 3 options:

1) Don't include Drath in your game.

2) Mod them to have some other special ability.

3) If they're small, wipe them out in one single turn. Needs more preparation, but after you conquer their planets, they're proclaimed dead. No more messing with their fleets, SBs, and special ability.

BR, iztok

4) Be the Drath!

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qrtxian

Join Date 03/2010

+30

Playing as the Terrans on DA I have had no problems with the Drath at all despite the fact that they are bribing wars among the other AIs like mad. Possible reasons for this:

My high diplomacy (Super Diplomat + Majesty + Star Federation)

My neutral alignment (not nearly as likely to make them mad as an evil one)

The fact that they hate others much more then me (especially the Drengin and an evil-aligned custom opponent).

I'm not sure how much help any of this might be, but this is the first DA game I've played where the Drath have made large-scale use of their SA, having definitely bribed five wars and probably at least three more.

Quoting wesirby4,

reply 9

Quoting IztokBitenc,
reply 1
Hi!

IMO you have 3 options:

1) Don't include Drath in your game.

2) Mod them to have some other special ability.

3) If they're small, wipe them out in one single turn. Needs more preparation, but after you conquer their planets, they're proclaimed dead. No more messing with their fleets, SBs, and special ability.

BR, iztok

4) Be the Drath!

I suppose there's always that one, too.

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