More Bizarre (if not Stupid) AI Surrender Behavior

from GalCiv2 Forums

Let me preface by saying that I think TA is a great game.  That said, here's yet another example of downright dumb behaivor on the part of the AI.  I've seen other examples of this kind of behavior discussed on this forum and witnessed it myself, but not this particular series of events. 

(In case someone asks, the game parameters were as follows:  Crippling Difficulty, Immense Galaxy, Rare Inhabitable Planets, Uncommon Planets, Rare Suns, Occasional Extreme Planets, Slow Technology, abundant everything else.  I play a custom race with no super ability and the Arcean Tech Tree.  There are nine AI players-these settings usually mean that that most empires have two-four planets after the initial colony rush and sets up a good epic battle in my opinion.) 

Anyway, I declared war on the Altarians, who had yet to develop a single weapons technology but had progressed well down the ground invasion tech tree.  Thus, they had tons of transports in orbit around all five of their planets (three of those planets were extreme environments so they had gone down that long tech tree as well).  I had colonized an extreme planet right in the midst of their primary center where their home system was located and to my delight found it to be an ideal location to build my manufacturing capital and the stellar forge and oribital command center.  I had Mass Drivers, which is the second (after "space cannons") mass driver weapon in the Arcean Tech Tree.   I constructed a single fleet of five small ships with three mass drivers each and three transports (I had only the initial planetary invasion tech and enhanced logistics).  With that I declared war and proceeded to move my fleet to attack (the neutral ground provision was in place so my ships were "kicked out" of their territory."   Of course, without a shot the Altarians promptly surrendered to the Drath.  It's odd they never developed ANY weapons tech (or at least did not build any armed ships) given the stage of the game-early middle, post colony rush.  This may be related to the increased costs for weapons technology (which I happen to like by the way-it makes early weapons tech relevant).

I noted that the ships the Drath immediately constructed in orbit around the formerly Altarian Planets were also unarmed, so it appeared they had not developed weapons technology either.  Keep in mind that Manufacturing Centers were in common use by this time as were other mid-level technologies.  I immediately demanded that the Drath surrender Altaria, which they refused.  Thus I declared war.  The Drath surrendered to the Torians, who were the most powerful AI in the game, the next turn.  I repeated the same cycle with the Torians (demanding Altaria etc), except this time the Torians actually had weapons so I got a war and was able to invade Altaria and the formlerly Altarian systems.  The Torians then sued for peace, which I accepted because I had other fish to fry ane the Torian center was out of range. 

In the meantime, the Drengin had begun to ascend by capturing a series of minor race planets and part of the New Iconia sstem from the Iconians (who were also at war with me most of the game and surrendered to the Krynn once it was apparent the Drengin were going to overrun them).  The Drengin soon declared war on me.  The Korx and the Krynn were between the Drengin and my  empire.  The  Krynn had two planets-their home system.  The Korx had five planets and a Precursor Ranger.  Now that the stage is set, here's the dumbest part of all of this:  the Korx gave me their Precursor Ranger and about two turns later surrendered to the Krynn because their military was "crushed" and their economy is "in ruins."  The best weapon the Krynn had was Laser IV on a small hull and Basic Logistics. That Precursor Ranger would have destroyed their entire empire had the Korx not foolishly gave it to me. (In any event, the Korx should have easily defeated the Krynn given the relative sizes of the two empires and the Korx's healthy trade income).  I will note that in my experience  the AI never uses the Precursor Rangers to their full potential and most often completely waste them, but this one just took the cake.

 

 

 

10,920 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I ALWAYS turn "surrender" OFF!!! It makes for a better game.   B)

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

My only problem with that is that sometimes it makes for a game that just goes on too long.  That's one reason I use such scarce planet settings-it helps keep the games from becoming one long mop up operation. 

I can see why the Altarians surrendered when they did-they had no fleet with weapons and were about to be invaded.  It was just a matter of comparing their military rating to my own and the flipped.  The more important question is, why did neither the Altarians or the Drath have any weapons at that stage of the game?  I would expect that on low difficulty settings but not on Crippling.  An even bigger question for me is why in the hell the Korx gave me their Precursor ranger when they were already at war with the Krynn.  Moreover, why did they then surrender when even without the Ranger they could have defeated the Krynn.  I think this needs to be tweaked a bit.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I've never read about any definitve information on AI surrenders. All that MAC said sounds reasonable, but I don't know if the AI does all that comparing. My guess is that there are certain parameters for a surrender and then theres a die roll to see if that AI actually does surrender. Now how they choose who to surrender to is another mystery entirely. It just seems random. The korx would sell you the Ranger based on your offer, your relations and your diplomacy, I don't think it would consider a war it was in. I don't think the AI really "thinks" that deeply into its situation.

I've seen AI civs hang around until every planet is taken. I've also seen surrenders when the AI has a few planets left and a couple dozen ships. Why don't they ever ask for peace first? I've had those games where I have a full fleet adjacent to every AI planet, picking off any ship as it gets built and still no surrender.

Sometimes I think its supposed to be in the personality of the race, but i think i've seen every race surrender at one time or another. In my MV DL game I had the earliest surrenders. Not sure if the game version made any difference though.

However, I like surrenders on. I like the randomness. Otherwise a player would find a way to exploit it. I like the way a surrender can completely disrupt the game. Like a minor-mega event. I'm about to finish off a civ..and boom they surrender to an ally of mine or someone i don't want to be at war with.

Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Just to clarify, the Korx did not offer to sell their Ranger, they simply gave it to me without any request whatsoever.  They stated it was to support my "valiant" struggle against some other player.  If I recally correctly, that other player was not at war with the Korx and presented no threat to them.

Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I just love getting those free ships. I do not know why this happens, again its seems somewhat random after some criteria is met maybe. It sounds odd that the Korx would give their best, if not only ship. Especially since, if you tried to buy it from them, it would cost you a lot.

I once had the Terrans give we ships on 3 consecutive turns. The last being even after the was i was fighting was over.

Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I regularly have the AI donate ships to my cause  I believe one of the criteria is that I am in a war and the AI against which I'm matched has a superior military (on paper) rating.  Another set of criteria seems to be the donating AI either is hostile to the AI I am fighting or likes me or both.  I believe I run into this because I rarely build huge fleets and thus ferequently am rated very low militarily. Still, giving me a Precursor Ranger was a first for me and then to surrender for lack of military power only a turn or two later just seems a bit "dumb" in my estimation.

Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I've finally had the AI donate a couple ships to me. Playing as the Terrans, I started heading towards the evil side (although I will eventually buy to become neutral), because some of the choices are just too good to pass up, especially on suicidal difficulty where you need everything you can get. They have given me 3 ships so far, once the Torians declared war on me (saying it was economical in their interest).

I also have an AI civ occasionally give me BC. Of course they never give an amount that is even worth anything. The Arceans gave me 3 BC.. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? Trade it for 10 influence points? lol

Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I had a similar problem in the game I'm playing right now. Very close to the begining of the game the Korx were at war with the Thalans. After a short period of time they surrendered to me(Terrans). This didn't make since as the Thalans, though superior to the Korx, didn't have planetary invasion, So I fail to see why they surrendered.

Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

u no after reading this i have some statements of my own.

after reading galacticdooms post i thought to myself that receiving BC is quite common for me. I generally get this as i begin my military buildup. I received 6453BC last game because i was moving through the Iconian territory and was on my way to cruh the dregin who was both at war with me and the iconians and was right next to the iconians.

 

another thing i think is crap with the surrender  ability is this. 2 games ago i was playing my own custom race agaist the arceans, iconians, korx, dregin and yor. right from the start the yor was the powerhouse. i never begin building or researching weapons. i instead focus on my planets and the social projects, when i think danger is near for my empire i begin trading and buying weapon techs for my empire. the iconians surrendered early to the yor within the first year. no wars at all they just gave up. they as i began to think me and the yor was gonna go at it began to build up ships designs and trade for techs. within the same year after i have bought all the arcean techs they surrendered again to the yor. the dregin were the closect to me now and they were not really doing nethin. there most powerful vessel was a corvette that was like 6 missile and no defenses. So i declare war on them and the korx there ally declares on me. So now my fleet of large vessels called the dreadnoughts split and traveled around on auto attack crushing the fleets of the dregin and the korx. As i began to deploy transports and try to take the dregin planets they surrender to the korx. so my ships attack some more and manage to take the post dregin remaining worlds. so as i turn my ships to the korx they surrender once again to the yor is whose influence incomposes 3/4 of the galaxy. i think this is crap because the yor now have battleships that can crush my dreadnoughts and nething else i have. i think that surrender should be to the enemy. u dont surrender to your ally only ur enemy.

Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I received 6453BC last game because i was moving through the Iconian territory and was on my way to cruh the dregin who was both at war with me and the iconians and was right next to the iconians.
End of quote

Hey I finally for a first time received an amount similar to that. Something around 9000BC. I was quite shocked to say the least! o_O The Drath gave it to me, they were pretty weak, but at mid-game they had 350,000BC in their coffers, so it was nothing to them.

Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Surrenders have to be something random. They can not be just to allies, or enemies; not to the strongst or most diplomatic. If there were a way to predict when and to whom a surrender would take place, players would then do X and Y to make sure the AI surrendered to them every single time. The new tactic would be to start wars and put yourself in the position to reap all of the surrenders.

If you don't like the way surrenders happen or just don't want them at all.... turn them off.

 

Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Surrenders have to be something random.
End of quote

They do seem random. Many times after I start a war with a civ, sometimes they surrender to me, saying 'You defeated us, here is all of our planets! Cya!', other times they say 'We hate you! We giving our civ to so-and-so'. It almost seems as, if you have great relations with that civ, going to war with them doesn't 'Lower' how they think of you, so if you kick their galactic butt across the galaxy, they will surrender to you. That's what it seems like, not really too sure. So before you start a war, just give them a bunch of money and worthless tech's, get them to like you, then destroy them so they will give you all their planets... I could be wrong though.

It seems the same the other way around too, last game Torians declared war on me (we were friendly), and I was taking them over, so they surrendered to me. The Korath in that game, whom I did not have good relations with before the 'war assassination event' took place, ended up surrendering to someone else.

Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Yes 3 days into the game and I've already found this surrendering thing quite absurd..  It makes for what would've been a fun game a dumb game where its usually the terran or the altarian race allied with everyone and dominating. Another nuissance is when you start a war with someone and the minor races start giving you their little toys to aid you...Like what good would 5hp fleets with laser III do when you already have plasma weapons and large hulls and considering how faraway their ships are to your home planet I find myself just decommissiong them as this would probably benefit me more..