Query: Hull size and scaling

How exactly are weapons/defenses and modules set to scale against the hull size? I'm playing with a minor mod concept in my head, but I'm not seeing anything specific on how the systems scale up on the hull sizes in GC2Types.xml.

I hope this doesn't imply that the hull size categories are hard coded in order - I would like to add more size classes and stagger them up a bit more - the mathematical part of me is saying it should be Log(e) as the 'natural' progression of sizes - {G}

Thanks - Jonnan

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Have you checked the wiki?

https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Galactic_Civilizations_Wiki

Ship components are size + sizemod, rounded down (or truncated, if you prefer). So for instance a black hole eruptor (11 size, 2% sizemod) on a medium hull (48 space/size [DA/TA numbers-DL is 38]; miniaturization is not factored in after some DL version) would be 11 + (48 x 0.02) or 11 + 0.96 which-HUZZAH-is truncated to 11.

Or you can try it on a huge hull (150 in DA/TA, 80 in DL) for 11 + (150 x 0.02) or 11 + 3 = 14.

Hopefully that's easy enough to understand-but I don't know that any of what I've said so far is relevant. I'm not quite sure exactly what you're asking, to be honest. It seems you might also have a question about the size of hulls relative to one another, but as far as I know there is no real formula for them...and even if there was, huge hulls at 150 size (while large hulls are 80) would seem to throw it off.

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I looked there, but I think I completely misunderstood the formula - I read the +% as being related to the size of the component versus the 'ship class' of the ships, i.e. small medium large et al. I won't claim that in retrospect it made sense, but that was how I read it.

So, fundamentally, the category of the hull has no effect, it simply sorts the hulls out into the relevant categories in the GUI, but components on a a 'Small' 1 hp hull with 100 space points take up the same space as a 'Large' 100 hp hull with 100 space point, base + x%.

By the same token, if you want to make engines take up 10% of the hull space (I.E. engines have exact scales) you could make them 0+10%?

Just out of curiosity, if you wanted to scale something as being much more efficient on small hulls, can you give it a negative base? I.E. -4+25% would make an item essentially free on a small size 16 ship, but take 21 points of space on a size 100 ship? Has this been tested? in combination with a 'only 1 per ship' flag like the scanner grid, it could make for some interesting ship designs.

Jonnan

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Correct, yes.

1) Just tested-and was pleasantly surprised to discover that a negative base is moddable (it works within the game). Interestingly, you can actually have a component take up negative space this way as well-which does exactly what you would expect: gives you more space.

But based on the way hull sizes are supposed to work, I would expect that at least one of those portions of this situation is a bug, and maybe both-although under normal circumstances it wouldn't be relevant, since it's only achievable via modding.

2) There isn't a 1 per ship flag. For the various 1 per ship components, it's hardcoded on an individual basis. Which sucks.

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Hmm - I have slight concerns about how the auto-building system will handle it; I don't know how it calculates stuff, and if the system doesn't notice that some systems are *only* useful on small ships, that could be an issue, and I'll bet the farm that negative value spaces will confuse it.

Still, the ability to make systems scale up more or less efficiently is awfully darn spiffy for purposes of balancing out technologies - setting offensive and defensive weapons to be more or less efficient at specific ship sizes, maybe make missiles very useful at small sizes, beam weapons at mid-range, and kinetic energy weapons at large sizes, with some tricks to make sure it's never quite free.

Quick question - how exactly does miniaturization work into this equation - it *seems* to add space to the hull capacity, do the ship modules scale according to the original hull size, or based on the total hull space after the miniaturization is taken into account. If no one knows I'll play with this when I get home tonight - I have a cheat game running while I setup some 'final' consistent ship classes/templates for my Psilons anyway - {G}.

Thanks - Jonnan

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Miniaturization adds space, yes. 110% miniaturization on a cargo hull (60 space in DA/TA) would net a 126 size/capacity cargo hull.

As I mentioned in my first reply (which was easy to miss), after DL 1.3.x, the size formula for components (rather, the sizemod) is based on the base hull size; i.e. not affected by miniaturization.

I had some concerns over that as well; I didn't have any problems with a negative sized component in the ship builder, but I wasn't satisfied until I saved and built the design. Come to think of it, maybe I should have sent it into battle, too, but it appears that it works just fine regardless, and there's no real reason why it shouldn't-all you're effectively doing is giving it an unreal amount of miniaturization.

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Ah - Thank you, I haven't had a chance to test that yet (Trying to build a 'Standard' Psilon ship list.), but I could see either possibility.

So, there are several options for building technologies;

x+y%: The standard rule, a base and a small scaling system as the mounts go larger
x+0%: A standard size, no change on hull requirements
x-y%: Will scale *smaller* based on hull size - something like Armor, where a larger hull means more being incorporated in the main superstructure?

0+x%: Scales directly with the hull size; Perhaps something like just Engines?
0+0%: Takes no space, just money
0-y%: Should actually grant space, ala miniaturization?

-x+y%: Takes less space in smaller hulls - perhaps a system that scales up badly?
-x+0%: Like Miniaturization only on absolute terms? Perhaps some kind of weapons pod or cargo container?
-x-y%: Space plus miniaturization benefits? Have some difficulty coming up with any legitimate use for this, probably shouldn't be used, but maybe someone with more imagination than I might have an idea.

Not sure on the miniaturization or cargo pod modifiers - if used at all they should have side effects, or be quite expensive, or both for balance purposes, and I think -x-y% is simply a degenerate case, but I can see good uses for most of the rest, if the AI can plan for them properly. I could see making missiles scale on the small end, beams in the middle, and mass drivers in the capital ships for instance.

Is there any way to scale the other factors like damage or cost? I haven't noticed anything, but that could be cool too - .

Jonnan

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