Are constructors of that much value?

Economic Starbases can be a godsend in the early part of the game: place them so that they overlap and affect several of your top manufacturing worlds, start building the manufacturing bonus abilities, and you can get something like a 25% boost to production and an even better boost to trade revenue.

I rarely, if ever, use influence or military starbases, but some people have said that using them in offense works really well: build fleets of constructors, send them in with your invasion fleets. Have your constructors rapidly construct military starbases right on the enemy doorstep. Boost your fleets up something insane, and watch the enemy cry tears of blood.

Honestly, though, in my latest game as the Terrans, my major use for my starbases was bait: the enemy seems to like going after them, especially my mining bases, so I would build constructors and kite the enemy away from my worlds and keep them blowing up my bases. Meanwhile, my incredibly fast warp-drive troop transports with 2000 soldiers each, supplemented by Tir-Quan training and insanely high soldiering skill would rush through the enemy blockade and invade their homeworlds as my fleets of fast strike cruisers took out the pickets. That's how I wound up defeating a Thalan-based race who had over twice my military strength: the enemy kept using that military strength on my starbases, and meanwhile I was destroying their planets. The only military pickets that gave me any trouble were their homeworlds, and by then I'd developed Large Scale Building and my battleships could smash their puny frigates and cruisers like Gallagher with a melon.

There are two kinds of bases. One on a resource, one not.

Are you talking about building on top of an economic resource. Or the kind you
can build anywhere?

You can tell I am clueless.

this one affects the whole empire

the other only affects what ever is in the circle

YES! Claiming and building up galactic resources can mean the difference between victory and defeat; this is only possible with constructors. I don't build any of the core ship designs but instead build my own. I'll create a fast constructor with good range to claim a distant galactic resource. I'll use a cheap constructor, just a constructor module slapped on a hull (the cheapest possible, cargo, small, or tiny depending on my minaturization level) for building up a nearby economic starbase or starbase mining a galactic resource. Galactic resources provide an empire wide bonus so are always useful but economic starbases only provide a local bonus so I don't bother with them on maps larger than medium. You may also use a constructor to build a starbase to extend your range.

In my last game I used tons of constructors to build 16 fully upgraded econ starbases next to my main cluster of planets. Not only did these bases give me a decent bonus to my freighters, they also magnified production on my main construction world and several others. Now I was able to produce large starships at a rate unmatched by any of the AI players. Talking about value for money; with these starbases I was able to create such a large army that when I declared war, enemy factions would offer all their planets to achieve peace, thereby loosing their entire empire to me. That's a good thing, because I tend to get attached to my warships, don't want 'em get scratched or anything.

Ps. If you get the feeling you always win with the same strategy, you might want to up the difficulty level to get more of a challenge, I don't know wat level you are playing at right now.

Also, starbases are FUN.

They do seem to attract enemy ships; it is hilarious to watch an enemy ship attack a well defended starbase with a little pop-pop of its guns, to be returned by a deafening and long cacophony as the starbase fires back. And obliterates the enemy. Very satisfying.

Theres no question about the value of the mining starbases. The all help tremendously. As far as the other kinds, I'll use military and influense on occaion, a lot less than i used to. I might use a military starbase if i border the Drengin or something and i can get its circle into their territory pretty easily. Also, dont forget about the spped modules plus for you and negative for them. having you ships cut through and get an extra parce on their way to the front is good. I'll use an influense one if i have planets sharing a cluster and i want to keep them in my territory or if i want a group of AI plants in my territory to flip. Some people use them as their main game stategy.

Economy starbases as was said can be invaluable to boost the production of your planets. that inlcules militay, social and research. So imagine your tech capital with another 25% - 50% boost. I play with tight clusters just so i can have a bunch of planets in the same circle.

I always end up using Influence Starbases maxed out. Every game, I tell myself I will try a new strategy, economic or military, but when I can encompass an entire system with one well placed Influencer.... it's a tough cookie to pass up. Sit back and let the planets rebel against their pathetic homeworld and join the Terran Race which they feel is

Building you own ship is easy

In short: yes, constructors are of that much value, if you know how to use them.

Now, freighters, on the other hand, seem mostly destined for use as "please don't hurt us, we give you presents" diplomacy only, and asteroid mining. . . well, I've never bothered researching up space mining because it's easier just to flip the enemy's asteroid mines.

unless you invest all your effort in trading, this is pretty much true. even when you do, it's not an optimal strat.



asteroid mining isn't worth it unless you set your game up for very slow tech progression (huge or gig galaxy, uncommon or rare planets/habitables, very slow tech, possibly tech trading off). on fast games it simply takes too much time to develop mining bases, but on slow games they can make a difference in a number of ways.

you can use them to squeeze out extra turns by redirecting them to planets whose production barely falls short of finishing in 1 week. if you direct an empire's mining bases to a single manufacturing capital for a significant boost to production. however, since it takes about a year IIRC to fully develop a mining base, they don't lend themselves to fast-paced games. the AI never seems to build additional miners, so their asteroid fields are about as worthless as mine when i don't develop them. i have tried building fleets of miners to get my bases up and running quickly. it'd be less pain if there was a governor for mining bases (and spies!).

Starbases are great if you have a lot of factories + military production capability,
but lack a clear tech and numbers edge in your starships.

Military bases can have offensive ship bonuses with the right research.
With a strong logistics (big fleets) and cheap ships, a few well-placed military starbases with ship bonus modules can help a lot.

Economy bases are a good way of cashing in military production. Remember you can have four bases per quadrant, so easily one planet can get like 8+ economy starbases on it for a huge cumulative bonus.

I'm not sure if the culture bases are really worth the trouble unless you're going for the influence victory. The iKorx video is pretty funny to see once though.

Trade is more for alliance / peace -mongering, though the money is quite good. Pretty vulnerable though if you don't play everyone to neutral or better. With enough trade and cash, you really can bribe anyone. Always consider trading with at least one neutral, or to keep the more powerful races neutral with you.

constructors are a low priority item.

For all the times i have been facing a superior opponent and then i look at all the constructors i built and realise they could have been powerful warships for the same investment i had made! I mean if you cannot defend your starbases, then yes, constructors are no use at all.

Mining starbases are probably the most valuable things in the game, so for them alone, get constructors.

Personally, I use influence starbases all the time, even when I'm not going specifically for influence victory, I can at least plant them in my ally's space and take his planets while he gullibly trusts me. Hehehe...

Economy star bases are an afterthought for me, but they are useful for boosting production.

You start with one space miner, and for me it's the last miner. Just set to automate and ignore for the rest of the game.

I don't use military bases. Military bases are only as valuable as the number of ships in their range, and since I prefer to build a few super-ships than fleets of fighters, the bases aren't worth a penny.

I normally play Gigantic / Neutral / Masochistic or Obscene / Abundent all / very fast tech / Terran Civ

I find constructors are my most valuable ship. Relatively cheap and quick to build, they enable large increases in the various resource catagories. Good use of Construtors on the Galactic resources and local economic starbases will double/triple your output in many catagories, sometimes even more than that. Adding modules to the Galactic and local economic starbases could be said to be a no brainer, the benefits are impressive. To throw away 37% increases in research/economy/influence etc across every Planet in your empire by not using fully developed Galactic resources, is almost criminal   

I will always in addition to building the modules on Resources/econ starbases, have a few lurking around other Civs Wars, as soon as one side zaps a Galactic resource starbase, I'm there next turn and its mine - a nice juicy freebie. For the later keep an eye on the GNN popups as to who is fighting who and when so you can move your constructors there. I find usually by thinking ahead I can give them the range to get to the war at short notice, if not I will slam in an influence starbase to extend their range and get them there.

I dont use military starbases a lot, as I find if I strike early, the AI is forced on the defensive, and rarely if ever attacks, leaving me free to concentrate on offensive capability/plans. Therefore for me military starbases in defence are not useful. A mini fleet of constructors going in with the attack force, to build a military starbase with multiple modules, against a particularly hard target can be useful, Other wise I dont use them.

The use of Military starbases are really as a result of individual play style. Galatic and Economic Resources/starbases are universaly benefitial, no matter the play style, and should be developed asap in the game, the benefits later are immense.

Influence starbases I only use to extend the range of my recce/survey ships and fleets, as I dont play for a cultural win. The Galactic resources I find are useful to build up the modules on them increasing the influence in general as it tends to force the AI to build more happy buildings, they do that, and they are not building productive buildings. That one is not a huge factor, but every little helps.

Regards
Zy

Constructors aren't that important when the AI is set on low difficulty levels. You can win without a big investment in economic and mining starbases because the AI has too many research and economic penalties.

It's a completely different situation when the AI is set on high difficulty levels. Then you really need the production and research bonuses from advanced economic starbases. You also need to get the maximum mining bonuses from your galactic resources.

Trading stations on your economic starbases can also make a big difference in the amount of money your trade routes generate. This is essential in the small-to-medium sized galaxies because your population never gets big enough to generate enough tax revenue to support big fleets without trade revenue.

One other important point: Constructors don't incur ship maintenance charges. Military ships do and the more you have and the bigger they are, the higher your fleet maintenance bill will be. Big fleets of warships are great, but they can cripple your economy. The AI can also make your fleet obsolete very quickly by research advances or by new AI ship designs.

If you have a lot of advanced economic starbases around your planets, you can respond rapidly with lots of new ships and new designs. If you don't have that extra production capability, you're screwed if the AI chooses to attack while you're trying to replace your obsolete fleet.

I play those same levels you play,,, I ignore most galactic recourses until later stages of the game when i can defend them, and no longer need them - which basically means that galactic recourses are irrelevant.

Galactic recources and starbases are completely irrelevant if you cannot defend them.

This is a good point, that is why I created a mod which enhances starbase defense systems. I usually only build Battle stations I and Devastation beam which gives me
16/2/2 attack. Enough to keep my bases and resource mines from being destroyed by weak warships and pirates in the early game.

Very true, but I have been able to do this by a sneaky bit of strategy. I did this in the last couple of games I played on challenging and it seemed to work just fine. First get several of your ships to the resource as soon as you can. After you have built the starbase, move the ships on top of it and do not fleet them. Any attacker must defeat all the ships before it can attack the starbase. This also means you do not have to build any of the battle stations/weapons/defenses for the starbase itself and can use those same constructors to rebuild the base if your ships do get overrun. This has been working for me but it does tie up a few of your ships per base and you must be dilligent about keeping the ships at the bases updated/replaced with newer versions.

In general, starbase defenses (to me) are useful only in the beginning phases of a war to prevent the enemy from just overrunning your starbases. On the other hand, I have been known to send "Marauder" constructors into battle: constructors armed with a single gun, used to wipe out undefended starbases and steal their delicious resource mines. Lately, though, I've replaced these with Q-ships which are cargo hulls with one gun and as many engines and life support as I can muster: those kill the enemy's undefended starbases, and then my fleet of fast constructors descend like rabid sheep.

Why don't you fleet them? Guarding your bases/resource mines with fleets is a good idea, but in my games there are usually too many resources to protect them all, especially in the early game. When the assasination event happens, spawning little enemy crap ships, my unprotected mines get destroyed. The way I play now, it costs me 2 extra constructors per mine to give some decent low-level protection. Later on, these defenses are not strong enough, but by then I protect the most important mines with fleets.

I agree, but I rarely have had that problem, the odd one of course with Galactic resources, but literally that, the odd one every now and then - I can usually plug that with the patrolling constructors I have lurking. I am concious it could happen, but so far its not a threat I have suffered any pain from.

I usually get some civs standing alongside some resources with a warship stack, but they rarely do anything, and I just plan for some assets to take them out on the first wave of an attack on their Home Territory. I normally dont have an issue with econ starbases, as I leave a couple of ships back in my influence area, and that seems to deter any serious attacks.

I normally try to strike early and fast in games, not build up big invasion fleets early game, just enough to pinch their planets ignoring their fleets who usually only have 3-5 parsec speeds, so I can run round them. I dont need to account for their strengths as they are powerless without the means to catch the invading fleets and they cant stop the attack (therefore I need far less attack strength than their defence force might suggest, and broadly only need cater for ships in planet orbit). Later in the game of course, I need to sort their fleets to a degree, but even then I only hit those that are stopping me getting at their planets, the rest go poof when their last planet is taken.

I have no idea why they are not hitting those resources, its an obvious thing to do. Its possible that hitting them early means I get a critical mass of planets quickly, forcing the remaining civs on the defensive with the Production capacity I have gained early. Add to that, if I have the resources, and they are on their back foot due to the early attacks, the additional capability of the resources they no longer have forces them to choose production priorities, and defensive fleets seem to then take shape - and assets to takeout my resource bases dont seem to appear. But its only a guess, I have no idea the real reason.

Regards
Zy

this is no longer true. the attacker goes after the strongest first be it the base, a ship or a fleet at least in dl. according to kyro

This will only work if you have reasonably competative ships, so if you are challenging yourself with a difficulty level well beyond your comfort zone then your ships will be as about as effective as the Enterprise is against the Borg!

Oh in DL i found a good trick.... you can block attacking ships (if they are going for the starbase) with a line up of crap ships - so long as you always leave an open path to the starbase, the enemy ships will usually try to go around your crap ships. You can hold off an enemy indefinately by constantly moving your ships into blocking positions each turn.

True, but if you don't research or implement the defenses and attacks for the starbases, leaving them unarmed, the ships must be attacked first. By putting the ships over a resource base that has nothing but mining modules on it, you can skip the constructors needed to build the offense/defense modules and also can skip the research for these improvements.