What magnifies tax revenue? » Forum Post by RogueIdea

Yes, economics are rather neglected. There isn't even any bonus tiles for extra cash, though pretty much everything else has something. It would be nice to at least see a +100% economy bonus tile, it would really help me determine where to build my economic capital. Not to mention give some much needed cash.

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Hi!

Yes, economics are rather neglected

Huh?
- A complete tech branch of econ-enhancing techs and buildings (Trade center, Market center, Bank, Stock market....),
- a government branch, that gives 10%, 20% and 30% econ bonus,
- a green resource that give bonuses to econ,
- trade ships that establish trade routes,
- the economic treaty and
- just simple selling your stuff for money

means for you a neglected economics?

BR, Iztok

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Hi!
- A complete tech branch of econ-enhancing techs and buildings (Trade center, Market center, Bank, Stock market....),

The same is true for Manufacturing, Research, Farming and Morale. The only area that gets less upgrades is Influence, which would definitely be a balance thing. And they all get bonus tiles, economy doesn't.

- a government branch, that gives 10%, 20% and 30% econ bonus,

True, if you don't mind making some compromises in your ability to wage war with another race.

- a green resource that give bonuses to econ,

And also one for Research, Morale and Influence. And we now have Asteroids for Manufacturing.

- trade ships that establish trade routes,

And production bonuses simply from having a moon in orbit, and research bonuses for having rings. Granted they aren't as much as you get from trade routes, but they're still represented. And you don't have to anything for them, they're automatic.

- the economic treaty and

Again, if you don't mind making military compromises.

- just simple selling your stuff for money

Provided you don't upgrade your ships instead of selling them off. Which is what I prefer to do.

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Population, that's what multiplies with your tax income. (Actually, it's the square root of your population)

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Hi!
@ Belanos
Obviously you know what makes money. You want free money in GC universe? If not, I really don't know what's your point.

BR, Iztok

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Hi!
- A complete tech branch of econ-enhancing techs and buildings (Trade center, Market center, Bank, Stock market....),

The same is true for Manufacturing, Research, Farming and Morale. The only area that gets less upgrades is Influence, which would definitely be a balance thing. And they all get bonus tiles, economy doesn't.

They added another building for those that is percentage-based. However, the econ buildings are percentage-based already.

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Hi!
@ Belanos
Obviously you know what makes money. You want free money in GC universe? If not, I really don't know what's your point.

BR, Iztok

All I really want to see is a bonus tile for Economy. Even the odd +100% would be nice. That's not really asking for alot now is it?

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An Econ tile would be nice.

Failing that, stay out of the Metaverse and mod the Stock Markets back to what they used to be, and go for the Econ Resources.

It seems that 'balance' is all important to the devs.
The AI (it seems) can not be programmed to use bonus tiles in the most efficient way, so the human component is made to be crippled.

(does No Child Left Behind come to mind? Cater to the lowest common denominator...)

I still come upon planets where the AI has many free tiles, yet has put a factory on an influence bonus tile (or some such other stupid substitution).

Why?!

How hard can it be to force the AI to use bonus tiles in the way they are intended??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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so in galciv there aren't anything like gold mines or diamond mines or dilithium mines

and

i still say that the current races can't use a space doesn't mean that the predecessers couldn't

which means that there should be some bonuses after you terriform everything

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Hi!

Yes, economics are rather neglected

All I really want to see is a bonus tile for Economy.

OK, I see now. But using a word "neglected" because among 6-8 sources of money isn't a bonus tile for economy is somewhat exaggerating, don't you think?

BR, Iztok

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A 100% Econ tile would be overpowered, since the Econ Capitol gives the same type of bonus a Stock Market gives, and that would pretty much kill any semblance of balance.
Also, the computer doesn't use the bonus tiles correctly. That's both a blessing and a curse. Can you imagine how much morale issues the AI would have if he built a farm on every single bonus farming tile? They have morale problems already, I really don't want to inflict that upon them too.

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I still come upon planets where the AI has many free tiles, yet has put a factory on an influence bonus tile (or some such other stupid substitution).

Why?!

How hard can it be to force the AI to use bonus tiles in the way they are intended??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are right in your observations of this but you have to admit the AI has gotten a lot better than it used to be in this area. I know I've seen them actually using a manu bonus tile for a factory and research bonus tile for research centers, which tells me that they have been improved on. More room for improvement, most definitely but it is nice to see that they HAVE improved.

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In a post by Frogboy about the new buildings planned for Dark Avatar, he mentions a "Planetary Revenue Service" improvement that would be equivalent to the power plants and research coordination center.

* A new building called the Planetary Revenue Service PRS (one per planet) will increase the number of citizens that are taxed (right now a planet with 12B population only actually taxes 6B of the citizens, The PRS would increase that to ~9B which is a significant increase in the # of citizens you can get to).

Two questions are raised - why was this improvement never added to the game, and what exactly does he mean by saying that right now only 6b of 12b are taxed? I thought taxes were based on the square root of the pop, so that out of 12b only 3.46b or so are taxed...

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i think the economy's working well enough. when the game was first released, amid all the clamor for tactical battles, orbital bombardment, and carriers, Brad and the other devs tried to hammer home that this game isn't specifically about war. upgrading a fleet shouldn't be cheap. i mean, since when would it even be possible to turn an ironclad into a a destroyer? and if one's hang-ups about the economy amount to "it's hard to make money and wage war," then good. war is costly.

i'm not opposed to an econ bonus tile, but The_Regicide's point is dead on. you don't get bonuses for putting manu or research caps on bonus tiles because they provide percentage bonuses, not actual research/industry units (and those tiles are keyed to boost units produced). without changing the way the economy works, you could put an economic capital on a proposed +100% econ bonus tile and double the effectiveness of the capital. that's HUGE. i think a +25 or +50 % tile would be more balanced; if 100% econ tiles were added, i'd say they should be about as rare as precursor mines/libraries.

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How hard can it be to force the AI to use bonus tiles in the way they are intended??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ask myself that question all the time now, since I can spy on their planets right from the beginning. Surely the devs can put in some code that forces the AI to use bonus tiles properly. I've seen Factories built on research tiles, while a lab is located on just a regular one. Really dumb.

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I know I've seen them actually using a manu bonus tile for a factory and research bonus tile for research centers, which tells me that they have been improved on.

That could be just sheer dumb luck though. I've seen no indications that the AI even acknowledges the bonus tiles.

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without changing the way the economy works, you could put an economic capital on a proposed +100% econ bonus tile and double the effectiveness of the capital. that's HUGE. i think a +25 or +50 % tile would be more balanced; if 100% econ tiles were added, i'd say they should be about as rare as precursor mines/libraries.

It doesn't have to work any differently than the other bonus tiles. The market buildings work by percentages too. I know the earliest one boosts your econ by 8%. So having a 100% econ bonus would just be like having two of those buildings, the same as the other ones. I don't think that's too excessive. And I don't believe the capitals gain any benefit from bonus tiles, only the regular improvement.

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And I don't believe the capitals gain any benefit from bonus tiles, only the regular improvement.

I've wondered about this myself, I was going to experiment with powerplants on bonus tiles in my current game. Anyone have a definitive answer?

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the bonus tiles only work on the actually building for that tile does not work for any booster buildings includeing the capitals

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I agree, late-game economics are rather neglected, and I said precisely that in the DA beta. You can boost your industrial production to no end using power plants, economic starbases (did I just say ECONOMIC starbases?), industrial sectors, etc., but late game you hit a wall on your money-making. There's only so many green resources out there. Your morale hits a wall, trade doesn't bring in much, markets can only bring in so much, and your population gets square rooted. You should be able to super-charge your money to match the super-charged industrial production, and you can't. All economic planets do, really, is reduce your production. That's where most of the "money-making" really comes from, not the stock markets.

That said, you can very much work around the problem by boosting your free production. Mine those purple starbases, build economic starbases, mine asteroids, all that.

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Hi!

late-game economics are rather neglected

My experience is rather different. In late game I usually make so much money that I don't know how to spend it besides outright buying stuff and spies. I do have some production-boosting starbases, but only on my core planets. What I feel lacking in my late-game (DL and DA!) games is social and military production, despite playing Industrialist. The production was IMO over-nerfed with -2 production for all production buildings and only 10%, 20% and 30% bonus from powerplants. It is true that I can boost production with mining asteroids, but there's usually only so many in a game. The rest of production-boosting is either not worth (powerplants) or too much MM hassle (econ starbases).

Well, my experience. YMMV.

BR, Iztok

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I encounter the same situation as Iztok. By lategame I usually have money coming out of my eyeballs and just purchase upgrades and ships like they are candy when I want them.

A planetary tile (if I understand correctly) can improve the numeric output of a given building it is suitable for (a factory producing 8 on a 200% bonus tile produces 24 manufacturing units) but placing a percentage bonus building (like a manufacturing capital or market) does not utilize that tile's special qualities at all.

If the above is correct (and I am not sure it is but I believe it is) then the only tiles that CAN directly improve the economic production of a given world would be farms, and they do have a set of bonus tiles. The markets function like the manufacturing capital as a percentage bonus to the farms.

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My experience is rather different. In late game I usually make so much money that I don't know how to spend it...

Same here. Though i think economy is very well balanced. Even at medium levels you need a high rate of attention in the beginning to make your economy work. Probably economy is the best aspect of GC. You can make money in so many ways that you can adapt your economy to almost every strategy. The only problem could be the over-power you reach in the end but, hey, at the end of a game you are often overpowered in everything so where is the problem?

richard

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A planetary tile (if I understand correctly) can improve the numeric output of a given building it is suitable for (a factory producing 8 on a 200% bonus tile produces 24 manufacturing units) but placing a percentage bonus building (like a manufacturing capital or market) does not utilize that tile's special qualities at all.

Why wouldn't it? If a market building is making 8% more econ and it's placed on a 100% tile, that means it's making 16% instead.

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Because production tiles only boost actual production, not boosts of boosts. They do not (I believe) simply multiply whatever structure is placed upon them.

If a structure provides X production, it would be multiplied by the tile.
If a structure provides a % bonus to production, it would NOT be multiplied by the tile.

You follow?

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