Gre_Magus

Join Date 04/2006

Is the Eyes of the Universe too powerful?

... anybody ever tried nerfing it?

I almost always build the Eyes of the Universe wonder. I've never seen the AI build it. With it, I never have to worry about using sensor modules and I can almost literally fly in circles around the AI if I want to.

In my recent game from the DA campaign, the turn after I built the Eyes of the Universe I noticed an unescorted transport flying towards one of my undefended planets - sneaking through what was my fog of war, but now plainly visible and easily destroyed.

Is the bonus given by the Eyes of the Universe moddable? I suppose I could just not build it, but I'm curious to see how the game would play if it was changed from 15 (I think that's where it is now) to 5 or something.

Any thoughts?

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A bonus sensor of +3 would be about right.

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well the bonus for the Eyes of the Universe are mainly aimed at the players. I don't know how the AI would react to the bonus other than the increased LOS, so any kind of benefit that one gives, the player would take advantage of far better than the AI ever could.

The eyes of the universe isn't one of the best super projects or something, so its more of a preference thing.

As far as modability goes, I don't know anything about modding structures like that, but it might be possible.

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Short Answer.... No.

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Is the bonus given by the Eyes of the Universe moddable? I suppose I could just not build it, but I'm curious to see how the game would play if it was changed from 15 (I think that's where it is now) to 5 or something.

AFAIK, the Eyes of the Universe has two affects: a +15 sensor bonus, and the ability to see all ships in the mini-map. the former can be reduced easily enough, and the latter can be deleted entirely if you'd want.

I don't know how the AI would react to the bonus other than the increased LOS

actually, i remember reading something (by either Brad, Kryo, or something else 'in the know' of the AI) that basically said that the AI needs to be able to see a ship to react to it. so i'd say, yes, the AI would play better if it built EotU.

here's an experiment: set up a small game, get going, build the EotU on some meaningless boarder world, gift the planet to an opponent, and then see if that AI suddenly plays any differently/better. of course, you could also just mod an opponent with a huge sensor bonus. i may try this myself when i get home.

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I think Brad once said that the sensor limit of 15 is meant to keep the game from slowing down to a crawl as the AI tries to evaluate all the things it can see. I had forgotten about the bonus of seeing all ships on the mini-map. According to the planetaryimprovemens.xml file the bonus is +10 with an ability factor of "0.20" That seems easy enough to change. Where is the mini-map bonus listed? Is it hard coded as an effect of the improvement?

Interestingly enough, it is vulnerable to agents. If the AI ever put an agent on my Eyes of the Universe, I'd be mighty angry...and impressed.

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Gotta say i love the eyes of the universe wonder! It saves me the time that i would have to waste moving dedicated sensor ships around.

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I remember when E of the U used to make the entire map visible. Maybe that was in the orignal beta for DL. They lowered to 15, and I kind of like it the way it is. Actually, it seems that the AI is less concerned than I am about getting any of the wonders.

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

I do hate it when after spending weeks getting to Sensors IV and building EotU, the mega event happens that gives all races an extended sensor ability.

Hypersensors i think it is. Tends to only happen on tough or higher, maybe the game acknowledges' the AI's lack of intelligence to play against someone with EotU and tries to level the playing field.

And yes i always build it. I find it invaluable especially if you are not going for a conquest victory, gives you a little time to get your defences ready.

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Nothing wrong with Eyes of Universe.

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Nothing wrong with Eyes of Universe.

Absolutely not; but if need be it could be more expensive to rush. It's allready expensive enough in my oppinion as is but I suppose I wouldn't care if it was more expensive.

And if you don't want to use the eye of the universe then DON'T but the reason your probably posting here is because you KNOW it's a good advantage for when you get to it and you may [could be wrong] be the type who lacks enough self control to play completely without it.

Bessides if you up the difficulty level a notch or three; you may get to the point where the Eyes Of Universe advantage won't effect the outcome. I know that up the ladder the ai can get really aggressive.

I typically play on "Normal" though; may move it up a notch or two in the next few games though.

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Hi!

Interestingly enough, it is vulnerable to agents. If the AI ever put an agent on my Eyes of the Universe, I'd be mighty angry...and impressed.

AFAIK this shouldn't work. I did that to Korath and their Xanthinium Plating , and their small ships haven't lost any hitpoints, even in the next turn.

The AIs don't really need the Eyes. At higher levels they got quite a large bonus to their sensor range. In one of my games at masochistic their warships with declared sensor range 3 moved to intercept my troop transport that was 8-9 parsecs away. They couldn't spot it with some stray Survey ship, because they had nothing with sensors close. I knew that because I had the Eyes.

BR, Iztok

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TheRealWarpstorm

Join Date 03/2003

+13

Since I build dedicated sensor ships early and often, it doesn't usually give me that big of an advantage.

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In my books the Eyes are not the best wonder, and not the worst.

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In my books the Eyes are not the best wonder, and not the worst.

what's the best early wonder? diplomatic translators would be my favourite.

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But aren't diplomatic translators a trade good and not a wonder, or achievement or whatever? I'm a little fuzzy on the difference. The funny thing about trade goods is you probably want to think twice about trading them to anyone.

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Ah yea it is, i forgot!

Actually trade goods are brilliant - they allow you to access goodies even if you failed to build it first, also they allow you to keep goodies to yourself that no one else can have. Basically a win/win invention these trade goods.

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Hi!

what's the best early wonder? diplomatic translators would be my favourite.

After playing the last two DA campaign missions without bonus growth I'd say Aphrodisiacs. Compared to previous missions, where I had 40% and 25% bonus, those planets of mine just didn't grow, despite all being held at 100% approval. Because of low pop I've been in deep deficit spending (7 planets, -250BC per week on average), 500M for a colonizer was a big hit, and invading was simply out of question. All that until I've built Aphrodisiacs.

Very likely I'll never again enter a DA game without the 25% bonus growth.

BR, Iztok

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Neilo

Join Date 04/2006

+128

Diplomatic Translators is one of the first, but i also like to get Tri-quan* Training. On the harder levels i find it invaluable.

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