Economy question

Ok so i started a game on the biggest map, crippling and 9 oppononts.
i am the drath, lots of habitable planets, lots of planets, common starsystems.

i chose the +20 economics party, my points i have in +20 economics, +20 moral and +20 population growth (might make a small number mistake but atleast you know what 3 catagory's i spend my points on).

so i thought ok i should be able to have a nice economie.
well no...first i started with 5K money, not 7.5K, thought this changed.
second, after getting like 15 planets my economie was like really down, -300 bc/turn, i can't do anything about it. so what should i do, stop expanding and than what, my income is barely enough to keep paying for the planets, i hardly have money left to either expand or to build up my planets.

also, i'm now at the stage to start war, clans like me so i've not yet been in a war, so i've been able to build up my planets and research.
my income is still not enough to have 100% of my factory's building, strange, i have 4K income wich is usually enough.
i have a full moral bonus resource, all moral researches done as well as all economics.
i simply cannot get enough money in my planets.

so...in short, what does the IA do, to beat me totally, there income was way better at the start, how does he do this?
what should i do to get more money at the start, right now, if i play against 1 IA with 300 planets in 1 game, i lose instantly cause i can get like 20 planets than i am pretty much bankrupt, the IA would get the other 280 planets, well maybe not that much but atleast 200 out of the 300.
i know that the IA gets a bonus in everything but....this much?

also...why the rule that if i have 20.000 in my bank my income would decrease with like 25%?

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well no...first i started with 5K money, not 7.5K, thought this changed.

It did for the last version of the beta. It got changed back in the final 1.3 release.

second, after getting like 15 planets my economie was like really down, -300 bc/turn, i can't do anything about it. so what should i do, stop expanding and than what, my income is barely enough to keep paying for the planets, i hardly have money left to either expand or to build up my planets.

You can either spend the starting bank on grabbing lots of planets, in which case you'll then have to sit there and wait for your economy to catch up before you start building, or you can spend it developing a very few planets completely and paying for the maintenance whilst your economy catches up. (And of course, anything imbetween the two extremes)

The first approach will leave you crippled after the colonization phase for a while, but if you can survive the lean period you'll come out much stronger on the other side.

The second approach will leave you strong after the initial colonization phase but you'd better start invading quick otherwise the AI will catch and move past you easily.

Personally, I lean toward the first approach on the lower difficulty levels and the latter approach at higher levels, but really both and anything imbetween is workable.

The AI faces *exactly* the same difficulties. It seems much tougher now because the change from 10 to 14BC maintenance for the initial colony has a *huge* impact on game mechanics. It also makes the AI economy bonus *considerably* more effective in the early game (the AI can put 500M people on a planet at the higher levels and it's immediately profitable. The player can't)

also, i'm now at the stage to start war, clans like me so i've not yet been in a war, so i've been able to build up my planets and research.
my income is still not enough to have 100% of my factory's building, strange, i have 4K income wich is usually enough.

If you can't put spending at 100% then you have built up your planets too fast. It's better to have empty tiles and 100% spending than factories and labs sitting there sucking up money in maintenance. The reason your income isn't enough when it used to be is probably again down to the increased maintenance of the initial colony. Just 25 planets is an extra 100BC per turn over what it used to be. Also, the economy buildings are now slightly less potent than they used to be.

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The reason your income isn't enough when it used to be is probably again down to the increased maintenance of the initial colony. Just 25 planets is an extra 100BC per turn over what it used to be. Also, the economy buildings are now slightly less potent than they used to be.

Also the tax income is only 90% of what it use to be at the start of the game -- at least it was for me.

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nice reply random 50.

for your last part, i'm past the phase were you build up your planets, i have the best factory's there are, second best OR best moral centres, best economic buildings, all planets are 100% build up (a few are still upgrading a few things) and i still can't have enough economie.

in the past games when i was at this stage i always had enough economie, specially when i was playing with all the economic stuff from the drath and my 10 points i can spend at the start of the game, everything was based on economic and still its to little.
there is no way i can get more money out of my planets, well a little bit but not to much, i have a reasonable ammount of stock markets, pretty mcuh all planets above pq8 have farms and i'm #3 in most civilians (while i am like last or second last in most planets)

i'm not saying i hate this, but when you are as economical as i am in this game and still your planets cannot get enough money to support itself...its bad imo.
i mean if i build more stock markets i'll fall behind in tech even more,
i have like 50 ships while the others have above 200 so i am behind there to.

to make it clear and a small summary:

*moral buildings are less effecient now (can't even reach tax 80% now!)
*economic buildings decreased allot
*upkeep of buildings raised, making expanding fast harder
*factory's (or atleast 1 type) has been decreased i believe but not in cost

these 3 or 4 factor's contribute ALLOT in economic problems.

question: does anybody else have the same problems (when playing on dificulty crippling or around that), if not what did you do to have a good economy?

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for your last part, i'm past the phase were you build up your planets, i have the best factory's there are, second best OR best moral centres, best economic buildings, all planets are 100% build up (a few are still upgrading a few things) and i still can't have enough economie.

As I said, it's better to have empty tiles than factories sitting there not running at 100%. Well, actually it's often better to put economic buildings on those empty tiles, with a view to converting them into factories or labs later on if/when it turns out you have a large surplus.

To be honest, it sounds like you need to take the difficulty down a notch or two. I think Frogboy's original intention was to make crippling, well, crippling for a good player not using exploits. (Hopefully he didn't want suicidal to be suicidal though!) I think he originally dramatically underestimated gamer's ability, but perhaps the AI and game mechanics have now caught up with the original intention. If you think about it, the AI *should* be able to outresearch and outproduce you as soon as it gets any reasonable bonuses.

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well i know that the difficulty that i'm used of playing at is the old crippling, wich is like painfull now.
however i'm still having a good game, 4 allies and no enemy's, guess i'm diplomatic.

with these new rules you need allot of economic buildings and less factory's and research labs simply cause you can't supply them.
i need to totally change my strategy cause the old one simply doesn't work anymore.

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Morale buildings don't work as well. I used to get by with one xeno center. Then build some stock exchanges to get close to 100% approval. Now it may take multiple morale buildings.

Trade centers don't seem to work as well and they are more expensive.

The only thing saving my butt is money found from anomalies.

I guess the AI may have the same problems.

I think they overdid the economic thing--perhaps to curtail the colony rush. But
hey, that was the part I enjoyed the most.

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