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Richrf

Join Date 04/2006

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An analysis of Mass drivers

Broken mass drivers?

This follows the same style of analysis as https://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=346&AID=116303

Basically I compare weapons within the Mass driver line. Newer tech weapons should have higher Damage/size ratios, given that they cost more monetary speaking as well as the research points invested.

I compared all the weapons across all hull sizes from tiny to huge , and at 3 arbitary miniturization sizes 0, 40% and 115%.

Interestingly enough Quantum drivers I , II appears to be worse off compared to Graviton driver IV for almost all hull sizes (altough quantum drivers III is always better than II which is always better than I) , across all miniaturization sizes. The only exception seems to be huge with 115% miniaturization where Quantum drivers II is a touch better than graviton drivers IV.

For Quantum drivers III

At 0% miniaturization

Tiny to medium hulls, Graviton drives IV is strictly better.

At large hulls, Quantum drivers III starts to look better than Graviton drivers, though the different is minor (0.004).

At 40% and 115% miniarutization

Medium hulls becomes the crossover point where Quantum driver III starts to look a little better than Graviton drivers IV

There is also a rather small dip for tiny hulls and little miniturization, between Singulariy driver IV and graviton driver I, but I doubt that's too significant.

Conclusion:

Quantum drivers I and II are almost always worthless compared to graviton IV.

Quantum drivers III become useful when you start using miniaturization and medium hulls and above. But I suspect, given the extra research and $ costs, Graviton drivers IV is a good spot to stop at researching.

Or if you want to research past it, research up to HD Spike driver which is significantly better than Graviton drivers IV.

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If you are interested for missiles

Positronic torperdo is worse than quantum torperdos, for all sizes except if you are using Large/hull AND 115% miniaturization.

So again, don't stop researching at positronic torpedo!

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If you are interested for missiles

Positronic torperdo is worse than quantum torperdos, for all sizes except if you are using Large/hull AND 115% miniaturization.

So again, don't stop researching at positronic torpedo!

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I'm missing your comment on the (overpowered?!) nano ripper, how about that weapon?

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Nanorippers and other ethical based weapons are obviously way superior in terms of Dmg/space ratios but at high cost. Nanorippers has around 0.5 dmg/size ratios. Post 1.1 it has being toned down quite a bit.

Generally, you need to reach graviton IV to match nanorippers in terms of dmg/space.

This is a RP saving of 15,975-6475= 9,500 RP, if you are willing to pay the $$ cost of nanorippers.

IMHO it's not that big an advantage particularly given that nanorippers cost about 3 times gravition driver IV.

Psyonic shredder is also a very powerful weapon. Assuming medium hull and above, you generally need to research up to neutrion bullets the (penultimate weapon) to start exceeding it in dmg/space ratios.

This is a RP saving of 57.875-16,975= 40,900 RP!!

Personally if i were evil and using mass drivers, I would go for psyonic shredder instead.

For missiles

Generally You need to research Photon torepdo II before it exceeds Psyonic missiles in efficency which is an rp saving of about 7,400k.

Lastly for lasers

Psyonic beam has an amazing dmg/size ratio of 1+ and in terms of research cost it's close to nanonrippers , but without considering the cheapness of defense, it's hard to say if psyonic beams is better than nanorippers. I suspect it is.

In most cases, you need at least Disrupters III to *come close* (not exceed) psyonic beams. Only the final weapon doomray exceeds it clearly. In fact, in all but the case of tiny hull psyonic beam is superior to disrupters III and it becomes clearer the bigger hull you use, and the better your miniturization bonus.

Psyonic beams are awesome , and if you have it, I wouldn't borther researching further unless you really need Doomrays.

The RP saving if you stop at Psyonic beam and not continue to disrupter III is 21.900. Add another 20k if you go to doomray.

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Think about it this way:

Any tech at level I and II is the new, unrefined, "primitive" version of the technology, III and higher are refined, improved, and eventually perfected technologies. It is no surprise to me that a lower-tech weapon with a high degree of refinement would be better than a higher-tech weapon in its infancy, but you need the I and II versions to get to the III and higher.

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Any tech at level I and II is the new, unrefined, "primitive" version of the technology, III and higher are refined, improved, and eventually perfected technologies. It is no surprise to me that a lower-tech weapon with a high degree of refinement would be better than a higher-tech weapon in its infancy, but you need the I and II versions to get to the III and higher.

The point you are missing is that what you said is not always true. In fact, for most part, in the tech tree, a newer tech weapon is a superior weapon whether it is a completely new tech or a refinement (I, II , III). E.g Singularity driver I is way superior to Railgun IV. Graviton driver I beats Singularity drive IV etc.

The anomaly appears only at Quantum drivers, which is the only class of weapons that is almost always worse then the most refined version of the last tech.

What's so special about quantum drivers? Or perhaps what's so special about graviton IV?

In any case, the fact that this occurs at quantum drivers, is a fact worth noticing no?

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the main thing about weapons is.... what is your potential enemy defending against?

the other thing to think about is only the anti missle tech tree has a bonus to add 20 % research

every game is different viva gal civ 2

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Thank you, here the problem seems to be graviton IV, which gets a size jump from 6 down to 4, where as everything else in that area gets a 1 point size jump, making it superior to the next line of tech. Changed it in my mod, thanks.

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the main thing about weapons is.... what is your potential enemy defending against?

Well remember this thread isn't about the superiority of beams vs missiles vs mass drivers, so defense is not so relevant.

It assumes you already decided you want to do say mass drivers, but you are not sure where to stop. My analysis shows that there are some spots which are not ideal to stop at. There is almost no point in researching quantum drives I alone and stop, since it's objectively worse off than graviton IV if you aim was to maximise mass driver attack.

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The nano ripper is not ethically aligned. It is available to use after Singularity Driver IV is researced. The nano ripper is bugged in 1.1. The weight, cost, and damage values make it cost a LOT more, weigh a LOT more, and do the same damage as the weapon before it. A damage value of 7 seems to me as being a better choice for the nano ripper than 5.

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I'm missing your comment on the (overpowered?!) nano ripper, how about that weapon?

Overpowered ? You must not play this game very much. The cost of a nano ripper 130 per is extremely high, in most cases its better to build more cheaper ships then a few tough ones that take alot of turns to pump out.

I try to design my ships so that i can make them in 1 (biggest military planet) - 5 (smallest military planet) turns.
you get a small with a nano ripper thats 200 cost right there, its slow, it has no range, but you can get 2 smaller ships in the same time that will win in a fight.

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Maybe he is thinking of pre 1.1. Before then it was damn powerful with attack of 8 or something.

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I don't know, I have had ( and will ahve again) Plants that build Nano ripper destroyers/ battleships in 2 - 5 turns. some times it's remarkably easy to get huge prodution on some worlds.

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