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FuzzyMatrix
FuzzyMatrix
Join Date 07/2002
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Simple "puppet states" system?

February 13, 2005 3:27:47 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Puppet regimes are of tremendous importance, espescially when it comes to conquer, colonize, or having an imperialist policy.

Maybe something simplistic can be included without trouble (and still give a gross picture). For example, if you instaure a puppet regime on a conquered planet, it will:
- Have a lower unrest and/or cultural change possibility than a blatantly conquered city
- A part of its production will go to you (metropolis)
- A part of its production will go to its formal owner (in form of money, trade, whattever)

The potentiality of unrest will slowly diminish if you maintain a calm situation and give what the inhabitants want.

I read that one of Paradox' games (Victoria: http://www.paradoxplaza.com/victoria.asp) has puppet regimes, but I never played it.
 Edit: By puppet states, I mean states with hidden strings, implicit limits of sovereignty, oriented towards a direction to start with, etc. All possibilities.
diplomacy
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FuzzyMatrix
CortesMaltose
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #1 February 13, 2005 6:07:03 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I highly doubt differentiated regimes for different planets in a civilization will be implemented in GalCiv II.
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FuzzyMatrix
FuzzyMatrix
Join Date 07/2002
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Reply #2 February 13, 2005 6:48:22 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
e very sweet.
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FuzzyMatrix
Donal Graeme
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #3 February 13, 2005 9:27:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
nge to the diplomacy in the game, as well.
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FuzzyMatrix
AngleWyrm
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #4 February 14, 2005 1:25:28 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
o go to work...

I like to have a beautiful woman do that job, who goes around proclaiming "Together we can rebuild!"
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FuzzyMatrix
Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #5 February 14, 2005 4:32:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
ppet states may get annoyed and break free).

Paul.
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FuzzyMatrix
AngleWyrm
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #6 February 14, 2005 9:01:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
ep the peace. Or maybe the tribe brought the news media in as a form of self protection.
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FuzzyMatrix
torbird
Join Date 10/2003
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Reply #7 February 15, 2005 11:55:17 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
http://images.stardock.com/gc2/smiles/Hmm.gif" border=0 ALIGN="absmiddle">
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FuzzyMatrix
sTn-
Join Date 10/2003
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Reply #8 February 15, 2005 11:57:10 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Victoria sucks. Probably the worst game Paradox has ever made. I like their other games though
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FuzzyMatrix
Star Ranger
Join Date 12/2002
+6
Reply #9 February 16, 2005 2:12:23 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'm not a fan of puppet states. I think it adds a whole new wrinkle of complexity that should be left out for a future game.
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FuzzyMatrix
AngleWyrm
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #10 February 16, 2005 4:02:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums


This is freedom to play, which IMO is the height of the game, the complement of a game's depth; it's ability to encourage expression.
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FuzzyMatrix
FuzzyMatrix
Join Date 07/2002
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Reply #11 February 16, 2005 5:19:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
s a part of what it brings (trade, money, whattever what and how)
3- Unrest / unhappiness or whattever is lower than after pure conquest


That's it...
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FuzzyMatrix
mindlar
Join Date 09/2002
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Reply #12 February 17, 2005 12:43:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
ee something like that working well in this one as well.
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FuzzyMatrix
Gezz
Join Date 05/2002
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Reply #13 February 17, 2005 9:38:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
"absmiddle"> Victoria does not suck!!
It is a great game with an admittedly steep and long lurning curve. But look at its forum and you will see a dedicated fan and modder base.
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FuzzyMatrix
Lord_StarPilot
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #14 February 17, 2005 7:55:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
your vassal state, they were of course, your allies. They voted however you told them on things, but your people and theirs still got the benefit of trade between cultures.

It was quite an elegant treatment of vassal/puppet states.
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FuzzyMatrix
Dave Rosen
Join Date 06/2002
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Reply #15 February 19, 2005 7:47:31 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
h, but I thought there were some interesting concepts here.
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FuzzyMatrix
FuzzyMatrix
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Reply #16 February 19, 2005 5:11:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
> But strictly for the game's purposes, I guess it would need to be extremely simple.
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FuzzyMatrix
Tim57
Join Date 11/2003
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Reply #17 March 9, 2005 9:50:01 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
they are not in their best interests (ie. they think they'd be better off fighting it out).
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FuzzyMatrix
Knobula
Join Date 09/2002
+1
Reply #18 March 9, 2005 1:46:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
to the depth of the game if it could be done, especially if combined with some sort of penalty for ships entering enemy space (see here

Link
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FuzzyMatrix
Cliffracer Slayer
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #19 March 26, 2005 4:03:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How about going further, and making cultural domination turn civs into sattelites rather than gobbling up their world. Much more realistic.

Plus a sattelite/puppet state should take on the moral alignment of it's master and possibly you should be able to protectorate a civ of opposing alignment.

The powers of a protectorate/puppets master
1.A two way exchange of visual range and the ability to see inside one anothers planets (note this should apply to alliances too)
2.The protectorate has the same diplomatic status as it's master regarding war and peace.
3.The ability to stack ships on the same square (applying to alliances too)
4.A monthly tribute
5.Control over the civilizations cultural influence, though the puppet is now immune to that civilizations cultural influence
6. Forced morality change unless master is of neutral alignment.
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FuzzyMatrix
Solitair
Join Date 01/2002
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Reply #20 March 26, 2005 4:42:51 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
4.A monthly tribute


This is so open to abuse though and is the very thing that would make a puppet rebel. It's such an antiquated concepts as well. Trade is the key. I'd rather see trade remain than a monthly tribute.

Perhaps a puppet state can only trade with the ruling empire and all trade routes are therefore shifted to that empire? That would make satellite states very very important as trade income can be huge.

Paul.
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FuzzyMatrix
Cliffracer Slayer
Join Date 12/2003
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Reply #21 July 14, 2005 12:59:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Pretty good idea, that way it would be possible to grab control over trade in the galaxy. However I think that a sattelite should be able to trade with it's master's allies as well though.
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FuzzyMatrix
Cliffracer Slayer
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Reply #22 July 14, 2005 1:27:22 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The nature of the sattelite/master arrangement should depend on the moral alignment of the civilizations master.

Evil- Evil civilization veiw their sattelites as a master/slave arrangement on a galactic scale, in return for bieng allowed to continue exist the evil civilizations demands monthly tribute and exclusive trading rights. The sattelites can only be kept in bondage as long as the evil civilization is considerably stronger than the sattelite, at the first sign of weakness they will attempt to break away.

Nuetral- Nuetral civilizations see the arrangement in economic terms, that is as a means to aquire exclusive trading rights and offset their commercial competitors. They usually convince themselves that it is there duty to "develop" their sattelite's economy along lines favored by their ruling economic dogma, ie capitalism, communism or mixed economy.

Good- Good civilizations tend to see the arrangement as educational, or rather re-educational. The "fallen" civilization must be dominated for a period of time, by which it can be slowly re-aligned toward goodness. As such good civilizations do not demand either exclusive trading rights or tribute and the arrangement is more of an enforced alliance than anything else. However allies do tend to trade with one another, so this isn't as bad as it might appear.
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FuzzyMatrix
NagaPrince
Join Date 06/2005
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Reply #23 July 15, 2005 10:47:10 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
How come we all can come to an conclusion that having ENTIRE control of a planet instead of wasting possibly, Naval'en'millions of soldiers JUST so they can realize that the planet they've fought so hard to secure for their Empire & Emperor is supplying the economy and war effort of their enemies.

Eventually, hopefully within short an short time period the dissent of the population if any left or a small pocket is comfortable. You will rebuild the planet and prosper its infrastructure or eliminate the post-war victims and establish a colony of your own species on the soil, barren or lush.
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FuzzyMatrix
TheJopa
Join Date 09/2005
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Reply #24 September 1, 2005 3:36:49 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I like this:
If you choose to create puppet from conquered planets, you gaing tribute from it (You can set percentage) but not all, and dissent is lower. Also it is recognised as yours by other nations and has your color. It is best to make puppets from minors, but you can also puppet major civs planet. But then, if major civilization just enters system and wins space combat, planet is returnet to them without fight (Because you on't have your own troops on that planet)
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FuzzyMatrix
Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #25 September 1, 2005 4:32:46 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
All this talk reminds me of SE4 diplomacy (Space Empires 4 for the less intelligent ) Where you could demand for weaker civilizations to enter into agreements with you. From outright surrender to co operative ones, to ones that were a bit more one sided to your benefit but allowed them to exist unmolested
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