mastroego

Join Date 07/2010

+12

Brad's promises - the value of words

When Brad returned from his vacation, he made strong (and well received!) promises to the audience. One particular phrase caught my attention (and approval!). He said something like (I'm sure many of you will be able to find the exact quote): we will need to provide patches of an extent that's normally expected from expansions. Again the wording was different but the meaning is preserved. Later, he promised 2 free expansions to those who "sticked". All customers legitimately assumed that such "expansions" would come after the patches.

Well yesterday we discovered that this noble intent was cleverly turned around, since the exact opposite is happening. The development plan revealed that they'll be using the first "expansion", at least, to provide no more than a patch (oh, they can even add a couple of FedEx quests to preserve the "legitimacy" of the label, but I know what I read). Not much of a patch either, since it'll just be a month of development, and the Map Generator will of course still be missing, just to name one issue.

I posted a couple of fairly critical comments there, and since others were agreeing with me... one day later the whole thread is conveniently gone. Not even the first time something like this happens. The point here is that I don't even care about the money, I would have paid for REAL expansions if they were never promised, but I hate to be lied to and treated this way. Brad went even as far as suggesting one user to wait for a demo, next time. Well of course if one was released before the game, we could've tried that, instead of trusting the advertising, the screenshots, the feature list and the MoM hype.

I know the company used to have a good reputation but I guess it's easier when things go fine. It's in time of crisis that people reveal their true faces. As for me, I've seen enough. And I'm not talking about the disaster of the release, which I was well prepared to forgive had the customers been treated with just a tiny bit of respect. At least for our (average) intelligence.

A customer from Italy

P.S.: I'm perfectly aware this topic will be deleted as well. Don't worry I won't post again. No point really. I'll just be checking the mods section.

elemental

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Lord Xia

Quoting ,

quoting post

It's in time of crisis that people reveal their true faces.

So very true for users too.

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I think you are over-reacting, but then time will tell for sure...

Then there is the multiple requests I've asked for acknowledgement or clarification of why in 1.08 the Weapon Tech tree was broke (Maces being better then the next higher tech weapon) and I only get crickets from SD... so then again maybe you have a point...

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I hope you are wrong, but I am starting to feel the same. I hope Brad and Stardock live up to their promises and the potential of this game. But everyday and every patch, I am losing hope for that.

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We're still waiting for those budgeted Demigod tournaments Stardock promised to hold for us.

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The amount of whining here is excessive along with peoples refusal to give time for issues to be corrected, and that is a product of our society, we demand things be done NOW! And have lost the truth that things take time, sometimes MONTHS. As we all know the game was broken at launch date, and still has a lot of major major issues to correct however fixing such major issues will take TIME, maybe months, maybe years, point is people need to sit back and chill and draw their conclusions when it was all over. And also be aware that the dev team cannot work on Elemental 24/7, they have lives, families and other business matters that also need attending to as well. Anyways I wont be judging until all is said and done, as far as I am concered Elemental is a WORK IN PROGRESS. People need to ease up and see it as such.(And obviously it should not have been released when it was but that issue is a dead horse)

If I recall correctly GalcivII also had a rocky start and look at it now, it seems to be one of the more popular games out there, but it did not get that way over night, it took years. I think Elemental will be the same, its going to take years to correct but once its done it will be awesome.

A good idea for perspective would be to have on of the devs link the galcivII forums after release to see what people were like back then as well.

In short give it time people and dont judge someone's word until everything is said and done.

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Brad went even as far as suggesting one user to wait for a demo, next time. Well of course if one was released before the game, we could've tried that, instead of trusting the advertising, the screenshots, the feature list and the MoM hype.

I was able to wait for the demo (i.e. still waiting) and i have plenty of money to spend on video games.

Why do people get so caught up and pre-order/buy games on release day. I will admit that I've bought a game by mistake once (Spore) but in general I am smart enough to wait till reviews, forums comments, and a demo before buying a game.

So basically I think brad's comment is legitimate, and if you are complaining that the game wasn't what you expected... at least the Dev is trying to fix it with huge patches.

Lots of people are complaining about Civ 5... even though there is a demo available on launch plenty of people pre-ordered it and were disappointed in the game. Unfortunately, Civ 5 players won't get any free expansions, they have to pay for most of the additional content they will receive. So by comparing the 2 launches, I think SD is actually doing pretty well...

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personally i don't care for demigod but i do for elemental (you can play league of legends better then demigod and free )

the main problem for me now is at the beginning there where 2 big patches promised before any expansion packs now that doesn't count any more

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I hope this tread is deleted. All this, and more, has been fully addressed. And people can find comments from Brad and co. all over the forums if people just looked before posting.

They never said Elemental would have a map generator did they? I recal a map randomizer, which would randomize the content on the map! The good thing with this is you don't end up with messed up lands. Starting on a small island etc etc.

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Cephalo demonstrated how one person could make a true map generator.

And they promised us "random map." To start mincing the definition of "random maps" after the game has released doesn't make people happy. That's lawyer speak.

I'm still dissatisfied, but I'm trying to give them their time. Of course, with a complete game overhaul coming soon, people had best prepare for more of this.

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I agree with the bit about having more content instead of less, even if we have to pay for it. I'd still pay for a $40 content expansion if it had a good feature list and the base game was already solid when the expansion was released.

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Eh... Im not neccessarily saying that I disagree with you, but Im not sure what the point is.

We don't know how big these expansions will be or what functionality will they add/fix. There were only a couple of hints and while I agree that the original statement paraphrased:"...people who buy before X will get the first expansion free, and as you know, our expansions aren't a minor thing" seemed to turn into "we did 2 10$ expansions for Sins, expansion means that it adds functionality, not how big it is" we simply don't know what precisely will be the case.

Either way we dont pay for these expansions which I think is a very very nice gesture, even if they indeed turn out to be DLC-like.

Yes, I agree that the comments about trying the demo version before buying a product are rather silly, provided that there STILL isn't one and while we were repeatedly told that there would be one coming eventually we don't know when or for what version (my guess is no earlier than 1.1).

If you dont like the game you can (unless you preorded, ya...) ask for a partial (75% I think) refund, which I think is also very generous. (look up EA or Steam refund policy..)

We shall simply wait and see. There's nothing more to do. It's in Stardock best interest (unless they intend to shut their Entertainment branch) to fix the game as much as they can and do whatever they can to repair their image and regain players' trust.

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First of all, (as you may have noticed) I love Elemental. I've had more fun with it in the past few weeks than any TBS in the past 10 years or so. If I'm being critical, it's because I care about it. Like a parent caring about a child with problems.

I've noticed a lot of "foot-in-the-mouth" statements by Stardock in recent weeks about Elemental. One week it's, "no, we are not going for epic battles, our inspirations is MoM" and the next it's, "we're going to be adding some logistic mechanics later to make battles more epic". Huh?

I've simply learned to tune it out. When Brad makes promises and I see statements like, "Oh, thank you Brad, that sounds great!", I just roll my eyes. People need to realize that the only sure way to know what will be coming in Patch X is to see what is in it when it's released. Developers some times make promises and break them, that's a fact. Don't hang on every word of Brad's like it's somehow immortalized in stone.

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There are several other things and suggestions that Brad and other developers have said they liked in other threads. I have also said that I liked several suggestions. Just because one of them posts they like does not mean that is what is automatically going to happen in the next patch.

Also, the other Post describing what the expansions are going to be like is still up.

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Got to love it..Think about it..people loss their jobs because the company did such a bad job on the game has yet to make any real money on it. And now the company is going above and beyond what we have ever seen from any other game company in regards to fixing the game. I mean really think about it. Any other game company would have put out some lame patches, fired the dev team, and cut their losses.

Regardless of all they are trying to do to make this problem right ... to make the users happy...people still whine that they are not doing enough. Complain that they are not satisfied. Heck when looking at the proposed change logs it looks like in a little bit over a month the whole game that we are playing right now will be almost completely different. I can only imagine what the game will look like a year from now. The developers are moving forwards and if you have not noticed there are some great modders out there doing amazing things. If you stop playing the game now and pick it up a year from now i doubt you will recognize it.

So in that vein i have a suggestion. If one feels the need to whine about how not enough is being done or how they do not like the game in its current state then i would suggest that they should go play something else for a while. Go check out some of the other great games coming out and come back September 23, 2011 to play the game that we all know Elemental will become.

Furthermore I second the motion to delete this thread and any future thread like this created by the poster or any other posters like them..All in favor say I..and let the great 'Deleting of the Whine' commence!

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A bit off topic I guess but since it was mentioned...doesn't the absense of a demo help facilitate/encourage pirating because people want to see what it is all about? Stardock has gone a long way to show their faith in their customers (that's a good thing) but the lack of a demo also seems to cause undue temptation for others. I do not think my statement can be proven but it occured to me as I was reading this thread.

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Quoting Polynomial,

reply 4

We're still waiting for those budgeted Demigod tournaments Stardock promised to hold for us.

Haha.. I remember that!

Just play Civ 5 in the meantime and by the time they fix this game you'll be well rested.

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Quoting GCFL,

reply 15

It's occurred to them as well, trust me. Many games do not release with demos however, and Stardock was convinced internally Elemental didn't need one. With the rocky release and bad press, I'm sure the lack of a demo has contributed to piracy rates.

But with game play in such a state of flux, a demo would have to be updated regularly or run the risk of convincing potential customers not to buy. Brad has been pretty clear about why the demo is being pushed back, and it makes sense to me. Having already bought the game though, my opinion on that isn't worth much.

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every day a new one of these, getting boring now.

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i don't feel decieved, nor do i particularly care exactly what end up being called a patch and or expansion so long as they get the game right and offer good value for money and reward their loyal customers....

but i think they could be a little clearer/more consistent about what they're planning. i'm sure that it's just a micommunication rather than a change of direstion.

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Quoting KingHobbit,

reply 13

Also, the other Post describing what the expansions are going to be like is still up.

No it isnt. the Thread name was something along the lines of "future of elemental". its not the "all purpose mega thread".

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Murteas

Join Date 08/2003

+44

Quoting GCFL,

reply 15

[sarcasm]Yeah, they weren't supplying free samples of candy at the store so I just stole some. I mean, they were asking for it by not providing free samples, right??[/sarcasm]

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A man, how is really enthusiastic about "his" game makes statements (not promisses) over time about the game and you take everything for set? You have much to learn about life... *laugh*

You do everything exactly like it comes out of your mouth? really? Must be a hard life ....

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To the OP I don't agree with you but there you go, they seem determined too feel hard done by what can you do.

I'm perfectly happy with what stardock are doing thanks.

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Quoting Murteas,

reply 21

[sarcasm]Yeah, they weren't supplying free samples of candy at the store so I just stole some. I mean, they were asking for it by not providing free samples, right??[/sarcasm]

That was funny, you get karma for that.

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I agree. The free content we'll be getting that was only briefly outlined in a short summary of upcoming content isn't good enough. I'm not quite sure what will be in these expansions but I already know that it is not enough.

I want MORE (of...something...) and I want it NOW.

- To those wondering; yes, I am being sarcastic.

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