Treaty Penalty Question

Ok, I understand that if you go to war w/someone that you had a research/econ treaty w/, you pay a penalty, everyone gets upset w/you. The treaties are one way, you only have 2 to give out, but you can diplo your way into getting several where you are the recipient, far more than 2, as many as you can get. So the question is, does the penalty apply to *you* when you are merely the *recipient* and you are not reciprocating? Does it apply to both the giver and taker, even in a one way arrangement, or only to the giver?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

It's not a "penalty". If two parties with a treaty go to war (regardless of which side declares war or 'owns' the treaty), the treaty is simply voided in its entirety, and the giver gets it back to give to someone else.

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On page 34 of the manual (which it seems is actually the dark avatar manual, despite its name and cover) it says:

War Alert: Players who start wars with those they have a treaty with end up with a diplomacy penalty for the rest of the game. The other civilizations will look darkly at what you have done and raise the terms of any future trades.

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So it sounds like:

1) if you aren't the one to start the war - no penalty

2) but I can't tell from the language if it applies to situations where they have an econ/research treaty w/you, but you do not w/them (then you declare war on them).

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Ah, thought you meant the simple breaking of the treaty itself. There is a diplomatic malus for breaking treaties, though I'm not sure on the exact specifics of it. But then again warmongering in general is prone to do that to you either way

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As I recall, you receive a diplomatic penalty if you declare war on a race you are providing w/ a research or economic treaty. It doesn't matter if you declare war on somebody who is providing you with a treaty (but you'll still lose the benefit of the treaty).

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So don't do what Donny Don't does

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This good question just reminds me that we could really use more detail in the Diplomacy dialog box. I doubt that is simple and important enough to make it into the final major updates, but maybe for GC3...

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Other nations will usually get a "-We don't trust you", if you don't have that already.

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"-We don't trust you"

See, that's the stuff I'd like a detail screen tip for, like you can get on some parts of the planet window.

p.s. Isn't that one worded more like "We know what you're up to?"

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The "we know what you're up to" is caused (I think) by a race suspecting that you are trying to conquer them. This seems to crop up if you park transports or influence starbases around their planets.

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