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Stanley Tarrant
Stanley Tarrant
Join Date 03/2006
+14

Thoughts on invasion screen - not good

January 6, 2008 5:07:01 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Ok, maybe I am missing something here.....

I am actually not a huge fan of the new invasion screen.... maybe because it was totally different from what I imagined it to be.

So the flags just blink and you hear machine laser gun fire? Then in the top screen you just see the city becomming more and more destroyed?

I would like to see troops killing each other rather than blinking flags.

For me, the ideal invasion screen would be a similar style to the first invasion screen. Only with better graphics and some different graphics depending on your civ and your tech level. For example, lets pretend I am Drengin with Steller marine tech against the thalin. When I invade (with meteor strike) I see my drengin troops alongside some troops in power armor or whatever (cuz I researched steller marine tech) firing their green beams (cuz I researched plasma weapons). The thalin send their insects to battle cuz they are insectoid. They are firing red beams while rushing toward my drengin cuz they only have laser tech. Oh, and cuz I chose meteor strike, I see a meteor strike in the background.

I just don't understand something. The graphics for ship combat rock cuz you see your creation against another creation firing different weapons depending on tech. There are infinite possiblities since you can design any kind of ship in terms of looks. So why can't I see drengins against thalins in invasions with the same weapon animation differentiation that you see in ship combat??

I mean come on, blinking flags???

Am I just nuts or does anyone agree with me?
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Stanley Tarrant
rls669
Join Date 06/2007
+2
Reply #1 January 6, 2008 7:33:12 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I like the old screen better because it's simple and clean. Ivasion is just a numbers game, once it's started there's nothing for me to do to influence the outcome so I don't see any point in sitting there looking at stuff while the numbers count down. It's a waste of time for me and I always skip it.

Like I've said before, simple tactical combat like the land combat in Sid Meier's Pirates would make invasions something more than a cutscene that's about as worthwhile as watching paint dry after you've seen it once. Players who considered it micromanaging could skip it and use the current system.
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Stanley Tarrant
Stanley Tarrant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #2 January 6, 2008 7:57:43 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well technically watching ship combat is a waste of time too. But can be somewhat fun to watch as there is some variety. Esp. when your brand new ship is in combat. With some variety in invasions as mentioned above, it would be much funner to watch. It would be statisfying watching Korath slaughter humans.

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Stanley Tarrant
Jasamcarl
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #3 January 6, 2008 8:02:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I like the old screen better because it's simple and clean. Ivasion is just a numbers game, once it's started there's nothing for me to do to influence the outcome so I don't see any point in sitting there looking at stuff while the numbers count down. It's a waste of time for me and I always skip it.

Like I've said before, simple tactical combat like the land combat in Sid Meier's Pirates would make invasions something more than a cutscene that's about as worthwhile as watching paint dry after you've seen it once. Players who considered it micromanaging could skip it and use the current system.


Except this would take more work, and I for one wish they would concentrate on refining the mechanics that already exist, i.e. the ones that built this game's audience in the first place.

They already put more time into this issue than is warrented given my priorities, so I wouldn't mind if this revision is the last.

As to the op, ships can be modded, soldiers can't. There would likely be as many complaints from people that don't think this invasion screen is generic enough as those conscerned that its too generic in the first place. Besides, which, it would simply take too much time.

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Stanley Tarrant
Stanley Tarrant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 January 6, 2008 8:10:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
As to the op, ships can be modded, soldiers can't. There would likely be as many complaints from people that don't think this invasion screen is generic enough as those conscerned that its too generic in the first place. Besides, which, it would simply take too much time.


Why would that take a lot of time to make simple soldier graphics for each race when it must have taken copius amounts of time to make all the ship extras and design a system that lets you build ships like they were legos?? Why does this not make any sense to me?

Why would people not want to see some variety in planet invasion graphics? Who would rather see blinking flags and not an animation showing Drengin firing plasma lasers against Thanlins with lasers?
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Stanley Tarrant
Lord Null
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #5 January 6, 2008 8:12:49 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Stanley

I agree with you that would be the ideal invasion screen. Actually seeing the differences in ground combat as you research the new techs would very interesting and visually appealing.
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Stanley Tarrant
chrtwist
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #6 January 6, 2008 8:40:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I agree! (With Lord Null, and ultimately Stanley)

Everything else is so well-cared for... It seems a shame to ignore eventual invasion cutscenes --- Let's face it: Everyone invades, and sometimes very often!

That said, this is a BrIllIant game nonetheless!

Regards
Christian.
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Stanley Tarrant
LOLCHRIST
Join Date 03/2006
+19
Reply #7 January 6, 2008 9:28:05 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I haven't finished downloading the latest beta yet, so ignore this if its irrelevant now.

But, the sounds for the invasion screen are truly awful. Pew pew pew, very harsh and too loud (which I suppose is realistic for gunfire). Means I hit skip as soon as I can every invasion.
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Stanley Tarrant
Zenicetus
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 January 6, 2008 9:39:32 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I like the new screen, and I think it's fine. There was a lot more work done on custom ship design because it's a *space* game, and those ships are used for many purposes; not just combat. We spend most of our time looking at a space map, and land invasions are, or should be (IMO) a minor detail in that larger scheme of things.

Besides, any 3D view that would be zoomed-in close enough to show individual soldiers wouldn't represent the invasion as a whole anyway. It would just be one tactical battle, in the midst of a much larger operation. What they're doing now is showing the impact on the "big picture" -- the destruction of cities and planetary improvements -- and it's nicely tied in with the new building models.

Just my $.02, but I don't mind that they're keeping the focus on space-based strategy, and not getting too detailed with the land combat. This is a reasonable solution to updating the cheapo graphics of the original invasion screen.
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Stanley Tarrant
ScottTykoski
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #9 January 6, 2008 9:48:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Unfortunatly the new invasion screen is heavilly reliant on lots of improvement movies to feel the full impact of the change. Once you invade a Torian world and see the bombing of some Healing Pools, or an airstrike on your Arcean foes' Engine Factories, we feel the experience should significantly improve the previous solution.

I could go into the reasons our current engine can't pull off real-time ground combat as you described...if you want

edit: Actually, the more I think about it, there are only two engine features that are needed to allow ground combat to be done right (visually), but I'll make a post about that tomorrow...for now, I'm off to bed. 

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Stanley Tarrant
rls669
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #10 January 6, 2008 10:27:50 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I never thought it would be doable in the current game, it's just something I'd like to see, and probably something the majority of players wouldn't care about. Different strokes and all that . . . for example I don't spend more than 30 seconds in the ship builder, just clickety click on the components I want and wherever they end up is fine with me. I play zoomed out to icons almost all the time and only watch the play-by-play fleet battles when I want to see why one of my designs is getting spanked.
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Stanley Tarrant
Dahurian
Join Date 03/2005
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Reply #11 January 6, 2008 11:08:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I agree with the OP. I think the new invasion screen is a step backwards. I like the idea of a custom designed soldiers based on the original screen.

Also the 'static' noise is really annoying as there is a blast of static out of your speakers after an invasion. If we can't change the screen, could we at least tone down the static. The rest of the game is so flowing, that the static is jarring and really began to bug me after a while.


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Stanley Tarrant
rls669
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #12 January 7, 2008 12:34:50 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Yes, the static is way louder than any other game sound, I've been hitting the mute button when I invade.
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Stanley Tarrant
bmporter
Join Date 05/2007
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Reply #13 January 7, 2008 2:27:37 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It's hard for me to say this but after watching the new screen and then reading Zeni's comments I have to agree it plays more into the feel of the game. Sure costume screens would look cool and be watchable but then again if I want that I can always play that Star Wars game where you fight in space and on ground. This game is just so much more then one army kicking the other army.
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Stanley Tarrant
chazzie
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #14 January 7, 2008 6:32:41 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Very good points from the OP altough I rememeber this being discussed before and the same result being reached, I belive it was said that if there ever was a a galciv 3 it would all change then. I have to admit that I like the new invasion, the old one looked really out of place and dated.

We've also got to remember here thats its not finished yet either!   
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Stanley Tarrant
TFLothar
Join Date 07/2003
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Reply #15 January 7, 2008 1:26:43 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I dont care for the new invasion screen, nor did i care for the old one. After watching them both a few times i skip past everything to see the end results. An option to skip to the end results would be nice.

I'm sure the movies are good but after awhile i'm sure i'll grow tired of watching the same building being blow to shreds over and over. Blinking flags and little blobs shooting at each other don't really excite me much, i care more about the outcome of the battle.

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Stanley Tarrant
pdifolco
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #16 January 9, 2008 5:02:46 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, I didn't even see the new screen, but anyway, rather than a new screen I would have liked to have a better/richer invasion combat game design... I mean, invasion is still "I put X million pop on transport ships and drop them fight your pop" !
No planetary defense, no soldiers, no planes/tanks/robots/whatever, it's an insect invasion game !! Since GC1 this feature is for me the poorest of the game and seriously ruin immersion...
When you compare to say... MoO2 8 years ago, it was some LY better !

/rant off
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Stanley Tarrant
LogicSequence
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #17 January 9, 2008 5:11:10 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
People, the new screen ISN'T DONE YET. For god's sake, give it some time...
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Stanley Tarrant
General Homsar
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #18 January 9, 2008 5:16:01 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I would like to hear the soldiers actually fighting, (screaming in pain, ect.) and not just machine-gun fire.

Or at least more weapon sounds, like explsions or lasers chirping.
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Stanley Tarrant
Megajames75
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #19 January 9, 2008 5:26:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You all seem to forget, one it's not finished, two its a way to show improvement graphics.
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Stanley Tarrant
Starchaser12
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #20 January 9, 2008 5:31:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, I didn't even see the new screen, but anyway, rather than a new screen I would have liked to have a better/richer invasion combat game design... I mean, invasion is still "I put X million pop on transport ships and drop them fight your pop" !
No planetary defense, no soldiers, no planes/tanks/robots/whatever, it's an insect invasion game !! Since GC1 this feature is for me the poorest of the game and seriously ruin immersion...
When you compare to say... MoO2 8 years ago, it was some LY better !


Heh..I actually have Moo2 still installed (you can get it from Atari.com for 10 bucks, if you are nostalgic like me) and you are suffering from revisionist history. Moo2 was also "drop X million pop on transport ships and drop them to fight your pop" unless you had Telepathic. (Either your civilization, or your fleet commander)
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Stanley Tarrant
Audiafox
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #21 January 9, 2008 5:40:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think the new screen will be much better, once it's finished. Right now, my main complaint is that static is the only thing used to cover up the transitions. I mean, there should be explosions that cause camera white-outs and something like power outages that shut off the camera temporarily, at least.
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Stanley Tarrant
st0rne
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #22 January 9, 2008 5:52:45 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Hehe, first post.

Actually, I would love to see something like the invasions in Deadlock II. Something like the first invasion screen only from a top down perspective and somewhat more detailed, with tech level/path being reflected. Maybe giving the units individual stats and stuff. Nothing too fancy. My main problem with the new screen is that it feels like there's just too much going on at the same time with blinking little flags and the "main" video screen.
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Stanley Tarrant
Entropy Avatar
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #23 January 9, 2008 8:33:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Heh..I actually have Moo2 still installed (you can get it from Atari.com for 10 bucks, if you are nostalgic like me) and you are suffering from revisionist history. Moo2 was also "drop X million pop on transport ships and drop them to fight your pop" unless you had Telepathic. (Either your civilization, or your fleet commander)


No. In Moo2, soldiers and population were separate. You could contruct transports at any planet that had the required military installations, and they were filled with troops (not drawn from your population). You could build marine barracks and armor barracks and these could later be upgraded to power-suit soldiers and mecha, and these defended your colony against invasion. I think a defending force could also get some extra militia units on invasion.

Moo2 didn't have invasion tactics, but it did have planetary bombardment, which I think provided a more elegant choice between more troops and damaging the colony you are trying to conquer. Moo1 ground combat was very close to GalCiv2 ground combat though.

I think Brad had a notion to have a more Moo2-like model when designing GC2, but ended up short on time.
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Stanley Tarrant
LordZarth
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #24 January 9, 2008 9:20:37 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I can't agree with this post...
Although what is said is cool, it doesn't need to be done...
After all, the important point is the invasion, not the animation.


I only have two (hopefully) simple requests.
Please tell me if they are not simple to program, and then don't waste you time on it, but I would think that they would be.

First, can there be an option to make the movie 'destroyed buildings' bit bigger, or even start that way?

This could be harder, actually, but may be also relatively easy. Speed, FF, and RW buttons for the movie?
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Stanley Tarrant
Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #25 January 10, 2008 2:12:12 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
My initial impression was "Yay! New Screen! Cool! " after seeing a few dozen times now. The flag waving thing... I hope thats just a placeholder for the real awesomeness. I am not asking for real time, just something to better represent troops than Flags.

I am thinking of being shown movies about what kind of invasion tactic I chose. If I use Tidal Disruption I better see some drowning Drengins!!


Last thoughts, Kudos for Stardock the expansion as a whole is just WOW, TOTAL AWESOMENESS.
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