dctrjons

Join Date 02/2006

Tech trees are harder to learn

Which kinda kicks butt...but

Doing this without a thorough investigation:

Long version:
From what I understand with these unique trees is...obviously the unique techs are marked with the race icon. However, I've played quite a bit and I still forget the basic trees. Weapons and defenses are easy but some of the 'social' and economic branches I forget the details of.

Putting this up to opinion based on the fact I don't know how accurate this is. Is there a way to indicate what branches the races do not have in the Tech Tree window? If I am correct at understanding that some races actually don't have access to some techs, it would be nice for an in-game reminder what those are. Especially for those games that you've been away from for a week and you forget what your races weaknesses are. Work on a particular strategy of spending to realize...oh yeah this race accumulate cash well.

Short Version:
Showing techs that are uniquely unavailable to your race in a similar fashion that uniquely available ones are.

Edit - Ok now after just comparing zoomed out screenshots of two races....I can't see how it would be done. They are REALLY different. Which I think is cool as heck but man I need to figure out a way to get a better concept of each races' style.

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The new tech trees will take some time to learn and get used to. We've put a lot of data onto the research screen to try to help make the tech trees easier to use.

For example, you can look at the techs and see icons indicating that you will get ship components or planet improvements. These icons have text if you hover over them.

You can also right-click on a technology to bring up the new tech details screen. This screen displays a lot of data about the tech like the bonuses and items it unlocks. Not only do you see which items you get, but you also get a description of the item itself.

Here's a screenshot:

Screenshot of Tech Details Window

Hopefully this will be helpful in using the tech trees.

You can also right-click on a tech in the trade screen to bring up this details window.

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From what I understand with these unique trees is...obviously the unique techs are marked with the race icon. However, I've played quite a bit and I still forget the basic trees. Weapons and defenses are easy but some of the 'social' and economic branches I forget the details of.

I've been griping about this for a while now -- the "unique" race icons actually aren't that easy to see. They're too dark, too small, and they're easily hidden by the text. There's also no indication of unique techs in the tech trading window, and you'll have techs listed on your side of the trade window that you can't actually sell. I guess it's a work in progress.

Showing techs that are uniquely unavailable to your race in a similar fashion that uniquely available ones are.

That's going to be harder than just making the unique techs more obvious, because it's not just that some races get techs that others don't, it can also be a difference in how the techs are obtained. For example, the Iconians now have to research (helped by their unique Precursor buildings) the basic research building that other races get to start with. That one threw me at first. I'm not sure how you'd set up a tree display that showed how this was different from other races in a graphic format.

At some point we're just going to have to memorize this stuff. But I do think the tech tree and trading windows could do a better job of showing WHICH techs are unique, which are unique but tradeable, which are unique and not tradeable... etc.

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you'll have techs listed on your side of the trade window that you can't actually sell

Can you please give an example of this? What race are you playing as, and what techs are you not allowed to sell, but they show up in the trade list?

From what I understand with these unique trees is...obviously the unique techs are marked with the race icon.

Initially, the icons will indicate which techs are unique to your race. These are indicated with your own civ's logo. After you start trading, if you obtain a tech that is unique to another race, you will see that race's icon on the tech.

Displaying the tech's of other races that are unavailable to you would be an extremely difficult task. Because, as Zenicetus explained, the techs do not always link up the same way for each tech tree. Unfortunately, there really wouldn't be a good way to display it and not be too confusing.

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But I do think the tech tree and trading windows could do a better job of showing WHICH techs are unique, which are unique but tradeable, which are unique and not tradeable... etc.

You bring up a good point. That information is not on those screens. We'll see if we can put a lot more of that information out in the open.

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Thanks CC as seeing which techs on the tree you are using are unique is very advantageous as it gives you something to go for that you know no other race will have and could give you a slight upper hand.

User made mods for the Galciv II community

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But I do think the tech tree and trading windows could do a better job of showing WHICH techs are unique, which are unique but tradeable, which are unique and not tradeable... etc.

You bring up a good point. That information is not on those screens. We'll see if we can put a lot more of that information out in the open.

In another thread this was discussed a bit.

On the diplomacy screen in particular the racial unique techs need to be identified. Maybe something like an * after the name or the name in ( ) or something like that.

Also, when you right-click a tech and get the popup tech details screen if a tech is a racial tech it should say so perhaps on the first line. "Torian Unique Tech" or something like that. And also describe if there are things about that tech that you cannot use. For example if the racial tech allows the building of improvements but I could not build them it should be explained or shown with an icon like a red X imposed over the improvement to indicate that I can't build it. So I believe that I as the Humans could build the Arcean Navigation Center but I couldn't build the Yor Charging Stalks. This will help to evaluate if it's worth trying to acquire a unique racial tech. I always go for the Torian research techs as each one is a +5 research and I assume that I get that benefit if I trade for it. But if I don't then that should also be indicated that only the Torian's get that bonus.

Hope that makes sense.

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Also, when you right-click a tech and get the popup tech details screen if a tech is a racial tech it should say so perhaps on the first line. "Torian Unique Tech" or something like that.

Yep, even putting the Civ's symbol in the background would be good (or both for a pretty effect!)

For example if the racial tech allows the building of improvements but I could not build them it should be explained or shown with an icon like a red X imposed over the improvement to indicate that I can't build it. So I believe that I as the Humans could build the Arcean Navigation Center but I couldn't build the Yor Charging Stalks. This will help to evaluate if it's worth trying to acquire a unique racial tech.

There isn't anything like that currently. If some tech or improvement is so unique to a race's physiology that it would be worthless to all other races... that tech (or the tech that gives the improvement) just isn't tradeable.

There was once a attribute for planetary improvements that seemed to indicate they were doing this, but it seems to have been replaced with improvements you don't have the techs for being destroyed on successful invasions.

I always go for the Torian research techs as each one is a +5 research and I assume that I get that benefit if I trade for it. But if I don't then that should also be indicated that only the Torian's get that bonus.

Yep, you do. You can even trade with the Drengin or Korath for their version of the farming techs to get those nice +pop growth bonuses. Of course, I think you should get your own race's version of such a tech... just to keep things under control and prevent the loss of such bonuses if you happen to steal or accidentally trade for those techs from another race...

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Just wondering if there is going to be some external way to learn these trees. Paper would be nice. At least an online version. Cuz right now switching between races in new games is a rough way to learn and I am timidly aware of how many races are not yet in the game.

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ZubaZ

Join Date 11/2001

+917

I may be crazy . . but even teh parts of the trees I know the path for I try to play as if I don't. In the real world sometimes you just don't know what's going to come out of research.

Crazy, huh?

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It's not ideal, but I think the best way to learn the different trees is to set up a dummy starter game for each race in a tiny galaxy (so it loads fast), save those games with a name like "Tree: (Race)" and then load the savegames to peruse the tech trees. If the tech tree was recreated outside the game, you'd lose the supplemental info from right-clicking the techs. I suppose it could be recreated with supplemental text under each box, but that would be a massive project for someone.

And the other problem is the devs keep changing the game with updates, which would invalidate a tree recreated outside the game. Darn those pesky, productive devs!

At some point after TA goes final, the tree will probably be locked down, but that's some distance away I think.

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WIllythemailboy

Join Date 03/2006

+70

I have the beta, but simply lack the time to do it properly - any game I played would be obsolete by the time I finished. I do pay attention to what others say, though (what else would I do while bored at work?) So, my suggestion for trading racial techs:

Would it be possible to make truly unique techs (such as the korath/drengin farms, torian research techs, etc) be traded something like trade goods? Usable as techs for the buildings and passive bonuses like they are now, but tradable by the original race ONLY? (forex, the torian research tech could only be bought from the torians) The techs would still be available, but they wouldn't be passed around like the common cold, either.

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