Draknost

Join Date 02/2006

Beta 2a Bugs

Also some questions/observations

The only actual bug I recall seeing was when I was playing the game as the Yor and things went south, so I went back to the main menu and started a new game. After opening up the domestic stats screen I started to 'massage' my taxes/spending sliders to get optimum income without irritating my people off too much. They looked to be at 33% taxes, 67% spending per the norm but as soon as I clicked on the slider for spending to move it up, it jumped to 100% (my spending amount in my previous game as the Yor). I then clicked on taxes to see if it would do the same, and it did - it jumped down to 0%. I'd gotten the 10X tourism mega event as the Yor last game and put taxes to 0% (and still had about 450 bc a turn coming in with 100% spending).

This brings me to my observation - are the Yor not meant to be affected by or have a good morale? Their morale buildings also give you enough food to counter the morale bonus completely. The only way for it to possibly give you more morale than the food takes away (through total population) is to put it on a morale boosting tile. Even then I'm not sure if it will or not. I had built a stalk on most worlds and even with taxes at 0% that game my morale was 85%. I'd researched one upgrade to the charging stalks so they were at their second level at this point. A secondary observation on the Yor charging stalks - the basic ones that they start off able to build are 0 turns on all worlds. Pick a tile, tell it to build, it'll show 0 turns and complete next turn every time.

Also - I noticed the Torians get a lot of unique buildings right off the bat (which is good and adds flavor to them) whereas the Yor only get 3 or 4 unique buildings off the bat. Are they Yor due for a polishing next beta? One question I had on the Torians is that they are limited on their manufacturing - they get mining centers (which take 30 turns with the focus on social on new planets) at the beginning and have to go fairly far into the tech tree to get any manufacturing buildings. I recall reading they were pre-industrial and still have that mind-set, so this may be intentional.

I think that's all I have for now, I didn't play much last night. I'll play more today and post as I come across bugs.

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Oh! One more thing - I only get 8 points to allocate towards abilities now when starting games as the Torian or the Yor. I've not yet tried any other races to see if this is happening with them, too.

Cari_elf just told me in the IRC channel that the Torians have only had 8 points for a while. I could *swear* I remember having the points to put towards 20% pq improvement, a point for luck and another point in something random.

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I got some bugs:
When attacking with a fleet (no warp bubble) it will addionally lose x points of movements where x is the amount of squares the fleet moved in the same turn.

After invading a planet which had buildings in its queue you dont have the techs for, the will be deleted from the queue and you can use their tiles, BUT the transparent icon will stay on the planet surface till you built something other there.

Also some buildings will not be removed like the torian university and the industrial sector.
(maybe caused by cultural flipping of the planets instead of conquereing)

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A few small ones:

Korath:
Slaveling Imagination Labs don't upgrade to Xeno Labs.

Yor:
Efficiency Studies 4 and 5 are both called Efficiency Studies 4 and are both linked from Efficiency Studies 3 (so you can skip 4 and get 5).

Charging Stalks don't upgrade to Advanced Charging Stalks.

And not exactly a bug, but I also had considerable difficulties maintaining morale. The complete lack of morale buildings made it very difficult to keep the Yor homeworld at reasonable levels, severely limiting the maximum tax rate.

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Yeah, charging stalks = 0 morale improvement once you take the extra population into account. Interesting, I had researched advanced charging stalks and I thought that mine all upgraded. I know they were no longer 0 turn buildings to build charging stalks after I researched advanced charging stalks.

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Not sure if this is a beta 2a bug or a bug in general. I made colony ship MKII by clicking 'upgrade' on the stock colony ship for the Torians back in beta 2. This game when the techs became available MKII showed up so I obsoleted the stock colony ship. I'd done this in the previous game and the shipyards building the stock ships automatically switched over to MKII. This game it didn't switch them, as I'm guessing they just became available instead of me making them by clicking 'upgrade'.

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Korath:
Slaveling Imagination Labs don't upgrade to Xeno Labs.

I actually think the Korath are supposed to get the same Research Structures the Drengin get, so I wouldn't expect this to be true anytime soon. At least not without them changing how the upgrade target of structures is declared is changed

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Yeah, charging stalks = 0 morale improvement once you take the extra population into account.

Definitely this. My morale hovered around ~50% for pretty much the entire game, and that was with a maxed out morale bonus from the choice of abilities before you begin a game. When you add in that they only have one +econ per planet and they're incapable of using the advanced governments, the Yor can find themselves in the hole pretty fast since they really can't keep taxes very high. They seem almost entirely dependent on resource mining stations. Unless their morale is going to be dropped entirely, both morale and economy would seem to be in need of re-balancing.

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Some quick bugs noticed when playing the Torians:

-the universities do no auto upgrade to cities of learning
-many (or all) of the unique Torian technologies cannot be traded
-temple of memories should auto upgrade to healing pools
-in the inherited technologies description, there should be a period at the end.

Some opinions on Torians:
-cities of learning are quite poor (10tp, 5bc cost) as the final research building
-need more benefits for raising large populations vs. filling tiles w/ econ buildings
-as mentioned, there is quite a long period where central mine is the only industry

Game looks great. The Korath are absolutely interesting but they seem a little overpowered. I generally play games on crippling and masochistic and if I don't interfere with matters, the Korath are almost always dominate.

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add to playing the torians: building a tech capital didn't work? (no 100% for me)

also, opening the planet window has the default tile view on a blank green screen. is this right? looks a little wrong to me.

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A few things i'd like to mention

The introduction of race unique one per planet buildings such as the central mine, temple of memories and the research one (research matrix i think?) for the Yor, all very good but i've noticed not as good as a 2nd-3rd tier building of the same type (i.e central mine not as good as a third tier factory)i suppose this is to give the race a head start at the beginning of the game but the central mine cant actually be demolished so you end up with less in the long run.

Why not have it so the central mine and research matrix give a % of industry/research planet wide as well as what they do already, that would be a bit more like it. The Yor research matrix even sounds like it should do that anyway from the discription.

The Temple of Memories is the same, but why not give it a 1-2% morale boost empire wide per temple like the Arcean soildering temple and boosting its morale to 30% instead of 15.

The Yor imparticular i've noticed have a problem. I think the Devs were attempting to make the Yor have no issues with morale at all (as they're robots) and so their farms are limited to 3 pop max per farm to stop them from having 600b Yor per planet as you can only have so many stalks.

But the Yor have huge problems with morale. I think it was said that the Yor were strength in numbers, well you cant have large populations with the Yor because you can never keep them happy without adding more population to the problem and the closer you get to that 20b people the unhappier they get its kind of a vicious cycle.

Having said that i am very impressed and the races do feel very unique and you really get a feel for the race your playing now! Well done!

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Why not have it so the central mine and research matrix give a % of industry/research planet wide as well as what they do already

The Temple of Memories is the same, but why not give it a 1-2% morale boost empire wide per temple like the Arcean soildering temple and boosting its morale to 30% instead of 15.

I agree with debe2233. Adding such bonuses to these unique buildings would give them lasting appeal.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Maybe the Yor should get a morale tree of some sort.

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I'm seeing the same problem with morale in my current Yor game. This doesn't feel right, for a race of robots. I'm getting visions of Marvin the Paranoid Android going into combat, muttering about how they're all going to die. It also doesn't jibe with Stardock's original description -- "Impossibly strong, infinitely patient and meticulous beyond compare, the Yor have no pity, no mercy, no second thoughts."

I'm not sure it would work for the Yor to have zero morale issues, since that would make them a very tough opponent for conquest. But maybe just boost the existing morale so they don't seem so weak in this area?

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I noticed the same problem with the Tech Capital for the Terrans in TA Beta 2A.

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At the very least the Yor need researchable static morale bonuses.

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If a race has a technological disadvantage in a certain area, try to trade with the other races for the technologies you need. Diplomacy is more important in Twilight of the Arnor than it ever was before.

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While i think its one of Twilights strengths that you can trade the unique techs between races (most of them anyway) i dont think the Yor should be dependent on getting morale tech from other races just to survive.

I've boosted the energy stalks to give 15/25/40 morale and it worked fairly well, unfortunately you still have the problem of once you reach 19b people or so your morale will drop faster the more stalks you place so you reach a point where more stalks just causes more problems. Now this isnt really a concern on normal worlds where you'll likely have a couple of stalks say 14b people max.

But for the homeworld its a problem, your morale will be low with 16b people as standard then add in if you want more morale you need a stalk which increases the pop which causes morale problems which means you need more stalks ect.

I like the idea of a line of techs which just increase the morale ability, maybe some kind of "complience programming" makes the Yor population as a whole more aimed towards a single goal and roots out rogue units something like that, that plus an increase to the morale that the energy stalks give, or alternatively have the morale ability line give large bonuses.

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is it just me, or is the military/social/tech production not adding up? i noticed it playing torian, then checked playing terran - spying on me own planets gave a different set of numbers to what was on the planet screen? or iz i going mad again....?? (this is above and beyond the tech capital issue)

no, not the return of....the nutmeg

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Bug: When flipping a planet whatever is in the build queue stays in the build queue. Even if you can't build it.

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Bug: When planets are surrendered, buildings you can't build stay built or building. Drengin surrendered to me (The torians. I promptly enslaved their civilians as karmic revenge) and all of a sudden I had a few hundred slave pits lowering my influence.

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Playing as Yor: I researched Stellar Streams and it didn't give the +10 to my ships after I completed the research. In the past (DA) I think I remember that any tech giving +10 speed to ships immediately gave all of your ships 1 extra sp/week. During this game I think that I saw the increase on my Flagship but none of the colony ships, miners, or constructors increased their speed at all.

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First off, WOW...its like playing a whole new game...with everything to relearn. Very Nice.

I am playing as the Korath....and it seems there isn't a way to improve on a starbase beyond a very basic level. Maybe that's compensation for the amazing productivity, but if it isn't an intended nerf, then it needs to be added...if it is an intended nerf, there will be no benefit really to adding military-social starbases, and limited results from resource mining....

Getting these trees figured out is really interesting and fun....

Some of my style and strategy has to change without some of my old vanguard items, like stock exchanges and industrial sectors....

But it plays fun, it works, doesnt seem real buggy....very impressive.

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In the shipyard, the Stinger II description has an incorrect spelling. It reads "More Missles" (missing the second 'i').

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In the shipyard, the Stinger II description has an incorrect spelling. It reads "More Missles" (missing the second 'i').

Fixed for next beta.

Fixed in beta 2b.

The bonus does not go into effect until the next turn. Please verify that this was the case. If after one turn your ships do not increase in speed, please let us know. Thanks.

Bug: When flipping a planet whatever is in the build queue stays in the build queue. Even if you can't build it.

Fixed in beta 2b.

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