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thebutterfly
thebutterfly
Join Date 05/2007
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The Trojan horse stratgy

Give him tech!

September 20, 2007 1:46:43 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I just tried out a new strategy for the third time and it works for me (small to medium maps, crippling)
The idea is inspired by something Wyndstar once wrote about giving the enemy defenses so he built weaker ships.

You give the Drengin a production/and or science tech - let them pay with whatever (you may have to make peace for a turn or two.
Then the AI starts upgrading buildings and slows shipbuilding (it takes double time now). Then you strike again and the AI will be hard pressed to build military and will not build OFMs.
I guess this does not work on really huge maps - in small maps you can wipe them out before they recover and can use the new buildings.

Positive side effect: If you have a 1/99/0 slider setting - you don't have to manually disable civilian improvements when you need ships at the front, because some have almost been built.


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thebutterfly
Purge
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #1 September 20, 2007 2:00:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Oh, it works on large maps. Especially if you give them IC's while they are running a struggling economy. They usually start to recover a bit after you take enough planets for their economy to start working again...But that is a bit too late!
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thebutterfly
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #2 September 20, 2007 2:17:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Absolutely. Nothing can ruin an economy faster than aquiring Industrial Sectors when you don't want/need it. In my mind I never need it. I stick with manufacturing centers until I simply over build all my industry with stock exchanges.

However, I don't care much for the Trojan Horse concept. I wouldn't criticize someone for using it but I just don't think it's necessary. I will however make sure that all AI's have the required tech to build their Hyperion Logistics and Hyperion Shrinker. You can never have too many of these. Too bad they always seem to feel obligated to build their Hyperion Re-Supply Center first.
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Reply #3 September 20, 2007 2:22:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Absolutely. Nothing can ruin an economy faster than aquiring Industrial Sectors when you don't want/need it. In my mind I never need it. I stick with manufacturing centers until I simply over build all my industry with stock exchanges.

However, I don't care much for the Trojan Horse concept. I wouldn't criticize someone for using it but I just don't think it's necessary. I will however make sure that all AI's have the required tech to build their Hyperion Logistics and Hyperion Shrinker. You can never have too many of these. Too bad they always seem to feel obligated to build their Hyperion Re-Supply Center first.


You need it...How else can you install that last module on your galactic resource starbase! Oh, you meant actually building Industrial Centers!

Certainly not right away, you may be right to never build them....
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thebutterfly
Feud
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 September 20, 2007 3:04:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What is especially fun is when you trade them a large number of those techs, in exchange for ships (especially transports since they come fully loaded from their own population). Their economy tanks, and you now have a solid chunk of their preexisting fleet!
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Mumblefratz
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Reply #5 September 20, 2007 3:58:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You need it...How else can you install that last module on your galactic resource starbase! Oh, you meant actually building Industrial Centers!

Yes. I'll wait until I don't need any manufacturing before I research or accept Industrial Sector in trade. I'm usually done with needing industry by year 2 anyway. In any case I generally only have industry on 10-20 planets anyway. There are occasions where I get unlucky and get IS when I conquer a planet and then I have to go through my planets and delete the upgrade by hand. I will actually build an IS on a precursor mine tile but otherwise it's not worth the bother. But certainly the last resource mining module is worth the bother.
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gallagher118
Join Date 07/2005
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Reply #6 September 20, 2007 8:03:15 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
This just points out how nice a real social govenor would be. All it would need to be is a prioritized list of what you want built/upgraded.

The sad thing is such a governor could easily help the AI since it doesn't manage it's social build order whatsoever.

I have to agree that using this as a strategy is a bit cheesy. I always play with tech trading turned off anyway, which actually helped me because I don't tend to bother with trading anyway.
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shiva7663
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 September 20, 2007 8:14:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Poisoned Pill tech trades wouldn't work if everyone were just able to build planetary improvements with outdated technology instead of being forced to build at the current tech level.
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Starstriker1
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Reply #8 September 20, 2007 8:32:10 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You CAN build the older version, but I don't think that the AI takes advantage of that.
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drrider
Join Date 12/2006
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Reply #9 September 20, 2007 9:24:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Poisoned Pill tech trades wouldn't work if everyone were just able to build planetary improvements with outdated technology instead of being forced to build at the current tech level.


There are 3 buttons at the top of the build selection panel on the planet screen. "newest", "old", and "all". "newest" is selected by default, and if auto-upgrade is turned on, the governor will also always go for the newest tech. However, you can dismiss the queued upgrades (use the X at the top of the build queue, NOT the Decommission Improvement), and select older tech buildings from the older catalog.

Also, to turn off the auto-upgrade, hit the Details button on the lower left of the planet screen, then select Governor on the lower left of the Details screen, and follow the options.

drrider
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thebutterfly
BorgPicard
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #10 September 20, 2007 9:38:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums


There are 3 buttons at the top of the build selection panel on the planet screen. "newest", "old", and "all".

drrider


Wow, I somehow never noticed that, and not being able to build the old versions (particularly for manufacturing) always drove me nuts. Thanks for the info.

Of course, I have had the game for under a month (I guess Civ IV kept me too busy to look for another 4x game) and just downloaded DA yesterday, so there you go.

One thing I wish it would do regarding auto-upgrades: When you unlock a terrain upgrade, it would only upgrade one of the tiles before alerting you about it, since there is really no particularly good reason the vast majority of the time to make all of the tiles workable FIRST.
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gallagher118
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Reply #11 September 20, 2007 9:38:26 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Also, to turn off the auto-upgrade, hit the Details button on the lower left of the planet screen, then select Governor on the lower left of the Details screen, and follow the options.


wowee!! Now for all 200 planets in an empire do this. Seriously there needs to be a real social governor.

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drrider
Join Date 12/2006
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Reply #12 September 21, 2007 12:45:58 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Never argued otherwise...but then since I am always playing Rare... :-}

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shiva7663
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #13 September 22, 2007 11:59:40 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Wow, I never noticed the "Old" button before. Has it always been there, or was that a recent change? That, and turning off auto-upgrade, will help me a lot!
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tickhromeroi
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #14 September 22, 2007 2:32:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think the "Old" tab was added with one of the Dark Avatar builds. I don't remember it being there at all in plain ol' GalCiv2. When I started playing again under DA, there it was.
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PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #15 September 23, 2007 12:43:08 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The 'Old' and 'All' buttons are DA only, in all versions of DA. Dread Lords doesn't contain it.
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DamnedChoir
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #16 September 23, 2007 2:16:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Technically, this is not a "Trojan Horse" Strategy.

A Trojan Horse would be if the disk you gave them with the tech on it was filled with tiny men.
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tickhromeroi
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #17 September 23, 2007 4:13:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Technically, this is not a "Trojan Horse" Strategy.

A Trojan Horse would be if the disk you gave them with the tech on it was filled with tiny men.


Ach, crivens!
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theStormWeaver
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Reply #18 September 23, 2007 4:40:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Or if it had a devestating virus that sent them back to the stone age
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Embird
Join Date 08/2003
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Reply #19 September 23, 2007 5:27:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Or, if you sent them ships with trade modules, but with troop modules as well.
Then took all their undefended planets in one hit.
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PeskyFly
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Reply #20 September 24, 2007 1:11:20 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I don't think that would work. If the target planet is undefended, you wouldn't need a trade module at all. And if it was defended, the trade+troop ship just wouldn't attack it, and nor would it set up a trade route.

And they would notice the troops module.

A true Trojan Horse would be if the spy-teleportation system got removed and you actually had to land spies using ships. Then you could put the spy on a Freighter or Minifreighter and send them off disguised as merchants.

Or if you could secretly hire the Pirates to attack your enemies.

Or if you could gift them defective trade goods. Like Micro Corrosion Bots instead of Micro Repair Bots, and Explosive Hull Plating instead of Xinathium Hull Plating. Or tech-stealing Nano Recorders and Diplomatic Translators that declare war without command.
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Piznit
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #21 September 24, 2007 1:52:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Anyone have a screenshot of a ship they built that actually looks like a wooden horse? That would be a Trojan Horse...
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shiva7663
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Reply #22 September 26, 2007 5:56:34 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
One Trojan Horse strategy would be to launch Colony ships and upgrade them to Troop ships when they arrive at the target planet. The downside is that it still gives the enemy the upgrade period to react (which is still a shorter period of time than running a regular Troop ship from home to destination, though). However, I don't know how well AI civs can detect what a ship is being upgraded to.
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tickhromeroi
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Reply #23 September 26, 2007 12:46:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
There's a UP "law" that, after it's approved, stops sneak attacks. Basically, once you declare war (and I think you have to in order to attack someone), all the involved parties' ships are moved to neutral ground. The one time I paid attention to the numbers on that UP vote, it was 100% in favor. So, if it comes up, it looks like it will pass.
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