Drengin

Join Date 09/2003

+17

Q. GCII DA 1.50X.066 Is Diplomacy Dead?

Q. GCII DA 1.50X.066 Is Diplomacy Dead?

I have to ask as it now seems the devs have decided that tech trading is no longer something to use in the game and in the process have destroyed 90% of all diplomatic options for the game! The AI's now value techs so little that no tech trading can be used to stop wars, buy other techs or bribe the AI's. Yes we all wanted tech trading to be toughened up a bit but not at the expense of the game itself. Right now we are being forced into playing the game a singular way.. Military might!

Please someone explain why diplomacy in this game has been virtually removed?

As it was nicely put in a thread in the Core 'Tech trading and the Terrans has been so horrendously nerfed there's little point in playing them' or 'Something is seriously wrong when you have Incredible Diplomacy and the most they offer for a Class 15 world is 280 BC' and finally 'Diplomacy effects nothing of value and has become useless. A fundamental aspect of the game has been destroyed and the game plays illogically.'

These are just a few comments being posted and i haven't even mentioned the MV cheat flag AGAIN!

We love the game and would love it if you could see the way to allow us to win a game diplomatically. We know you wouldn't intentionally sabotage your own game but it does seem that way at the moment. With tech trading dead the game is ruined on a fundamental level and needs rectifying please

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Hey if we are wrong and this is the desired effect or by some strange coincidence we are all missing the way it should now be played please put us right on this

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1.50X was not the greatest patch ever done.

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It's not impossible, but it's harder. I'm not sure where I stand on this one. My leaning is that tech trading was too easy before and is too hard now, a good balance would probably be somewhere inbetween. I don't care that much, though, since I tech trade pretty lightly anyway. Using it too heavily, and especially making money off of it, has always struck me as too high on the cheese factor to be any fun.

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i wish there were allot more diplomatic options in GC, i've screamed for them pretty much since the 1.1 patch of DL but never has anybody responded to it.
what am i talking about, able to make custom teams from the start is 1 thing, coalitions and stuff, big 3 vs 3 vs 3 fights.

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Hey if we are wrong and this is the desired effect or by some strange coincidence we are all missing the way it should now be played please put us right on this

i usually play with tech trading off, but for the sake of, well, everyone else, i agree. perhaps it's just a case of overkill on part of the devs.

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Hmmm, maybe it would work best if they changed it so that the cost of tech trading slowly increased with each particular race as you traded? That way you can't just be continually abusing the system, but you'll still be able to trade a little without having to give all of your technology away for a single old tech.

Even if that doesn't work, something has to be changed again. Like others have said, it was too easy before, and it is too hard to trade now.

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In my most recent game, when I declared war against the humans (I'm Yor) 4 other races declared war on me.

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I havnt played much befor the patch, or played many non-costum races, but ive noticed that if you have the best diplo options you can get, you can get things for very cheap

and too pegasus, thats probly cuz they liked him and, well, if some1 attacked YOUR friend, youd naturally help him right? and also he might have had the super manipuater super ability

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but ive noticed that if you have the best diplo options you can get, you can get things for very cheap

Except you should be able to get super deals on the table as that is the idea behind Super Diplomat! All we are saying is the way the game has been pushed to now you may as well do away with the diplomats and add in some more military titles as that is the way we are now forced to play.

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I am sure there will be another update to address the tech trading. Its seems to have gone from one extreme to the other.

In the interim...

You can get more with a smile and a gun then just a smile!

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Yeah, gotta add my voice to the chorus here. I played several small games and found it very difficult to initiate trade, even with high-diplo skills. It is possible just alot harder.

The AI values tech more in the latest patch. While I would probably expect that situation in Tough or higher AIs, should it appear in 'Normal' or easier AI levels?

Is tech-trading not a component of AI intelligence, or diplo or both?

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I don't know what game you're playing, but for me diplomacy is still the easiest win in the game and aside from some war-related or colonization-related techs that the AI prizes, trading everything else out from under them (or just getting free money from them for tech areas they're far behind on) is still easy.

On top of that, in order to get in a war at high diplomacy + super ability you basically either need a random event to occur or be so far behind in military that they can crush you like a bug. Even then they generally won't attack unless you're the weakest race AND now in DA you might get other AIs joining in to help you survive!

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I'd agree with that. Even at Tough, trading out everything from under the AIs is still a cinch if you're Terran with massive Diplo advantages. I even buy planets and ships wholesale.

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I retract my earlier concerns. I managed to buy no less than 5 planets in the endgame of my last game (this is on a large map, mind you, whether there were only ~40 planets in play). I've never tried that before but, wow, that's crazy. And this wasn't with the Terrans, it was the Arceans...

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I think the AI changes regarding tech trading is great. No longer can you stop researching and get almost all your techs from trading.

Technology should be valued very high and as thus the AI should hold on to it alot more than it did before the patch.

As for diplomatic victory is concerned. How has that changed? I can still make alliances and thus still can achieve diplomatic victory, so what is the problem excactly?

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I also play with tech trading off so I didn't notice this.

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Hence the question.. Is Diplomacy dead??

Predominantly the answer appears to be no! Question answered

Now we look forward to the MV cheat issue fix and maybe just a tweak on te trading eh?

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Hence the question.. Is Diplomacy dead??

Mostly, yes - and I don't just mean from the player viewpoint. It is clear in the new patch that wars between AIs go on much longer, and often indefinitely because they are not able to negotiate a peace treaty - you always saw the same sort of behaviour, but to a lesser extent, in games with tech trading disabled.

This makes the game much easier for the human player, when compared to pre-patch games with tech trading on - AIs go to war, one side gets the upper hand, peace treaty negotiated within a few months, back to making my life a misery.

I can still buy whatever I need from the AIs at a price due to good economy management - but they are absolutely crippled in negotiating with eachother.

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Dum question but is DA patch 1.5 same thing with patch 1.5X? I have the 1.5 installed and in SD central appears that this is the latest patch available.

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Hmmm. If AI wars are easy for you to start, and they last a lot longer...I think that makes it pretty clear what the new game strategy is going forward. Cool, I never played Drath before.... I need you to do me a favor--I need you to attack my friends here, the Altarians....

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I think that makes it pretty clear what the new game strategy is going forward. Cool, I never played Drath before....

I don't start the wars generally, the Drengin / Korath / Korx are pretty good at that themselves - but you don't need to be the Drath to do so, it's pretty easy for any race if you've got the cash, just pick the one with the strongest military to start it all off.

If the whole galaxy is just getting along too nicely, then one little word in a Drengin ear about how the Altarians insulted them usually gets everyone a bit excited very quickly.

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The AI so frequently signs a peace treaty and redeclares war in the same turn that I'm convinced there's something broken there. Their "I need to help out this other guy/[race] is taking over the universe and needs to be stopped" logic seems to be overriding everything - whether they've recently signed a treaty, their military rating, everything. I once saw the Altarians literally commit suicide by managing to scrape together a treaty with the far superior Korath that were grinding them to dust, then one turn later the Altarians declare war again. The Korath ships never even got a chance to reverse their orders; they just kept going and crushed the Altarians.

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huh what? In my last post patch games the AI has signed peace treaty many times.

I still dont see how the diplomacy is now "broken". All I have seen is that it is much harder to tech trade, which is good imo. Tech trading should not be your main source of new technologies more than extorting money would be your main source of money for your economy.

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I think there needs to be more games played before people can say with certainty if trading is better now or not.

I actually enjoy not being able to take advantage of the AI, and I have to put a lot more thought into what I will give away for associated techs. I'm not sure if this was changed, but if trading lame ships to the AI was nerfed - I'd love that.

Winning via diplomacy before was insanely easy on Tough. And maybe some people don't like it now because people don't like change. I think it's really good to have an extended discussion on this before everyone cries it must be changed. It might be a tiny bit too tough now... but I'd seriously hate to have it back the old way. Diplomacy shouild be a delicate balancing act - kind of how it is in real life. And if you're a Terran dealing with nasty race that doesn't care for your same ideals, it should be really hard to negotiate with them. After all, some groups of aliens are just unreasonable sometimes.

I'm sure there's a middle ground somewhere, but we should figure out where we stand first

and play some more games. Though the game-playing part will be more fun when the Metaverse cheat bug is fixed - hehehehe.

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