Dark Avatar - Beta » Forum Post by TIPedersen

Hopefully there will be a open beta. There was some glaring UI issues and others in 1.0 GC2, hopefully SD learns from it.

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Yeah. An open beta for everyone who registered GC2 would be a really good thing

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+367

Not sure what we're going to do for this yet. If there is a beta, it'll likely only be open to those who pre-order the expansion.

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Oooooohhhh, that's sneaky. Now I have to pre-order a game and wait for delivery instead of walking into my local store and buying it the day it comes out. Why would I pre-order the game other than to be nice to your guys (not saying you don't deserve it)?

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

Why would I pre-order the game other than to be nice to your guys (not saying you don't deserve it)?

To get into the beta, obviously

And besides, it won't be in stores. DA will be online-purchase only, with an option to get a disc by mail (a printed disc in a dvd-case, not a full retail box).

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If there is a beta, it'll likely only be open to those who pre-order the expansion

While I understand this I still think it would be better to give everyone one who registered GC2 free acess to the beta.
Why?

I'm sure there many players (me included that like to test a game, either with a demo or by borrowing a game from friends) and the players who already own GC2 are very likly to buy the expansion if they like what they see.
Also more people with different styles of play are more likly to find any bugs or give good suggestions for the game.

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i'll pre-order when/if the beta is released, good plan!

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Oooooohhhh, that's sneaky. Now I have to pre-order a game and wait for delivery instead of walking into my local store and buying it the day it comes out. Why would I pre-order the game other than to be nice to your guys (not saying you don't deserve it)?

See, this is the beauty of Digital Distribution You download the game the second it's available, and like with GC2, you don't even have to have all the pieces in place to start playing (i.e. you can start once you have the core game loaded, and let the movies and music download while you're playing).

The GC1 (Win) and GC2 betas were also limited in that they were only available to those who preordered.

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I'm sure there many players (me included that like to test a game, either with a demo or by borrowing a game from friends) and the players who already own GC2 are very likly to buy the expansion if they like what they see.

This is exactly the type of player that does not belong in a beta. A beta is not a 'demo' or a 'free trial'. It is a bug testing/squashing period. I have beta tested several games (mostly MMORPGs) where the mindset of the players is that its just a chance for them to play the game for free. I'd see them complaining on the chat/forums about a bug that interferes with thier play experience, but when asked to report it through the proper channels the answer is 'thats too much hassle'. The result? A buggy release.

I think that having the beta open only to the pre-orders is a damn good idea, at least then the testers have some incentive: they have thier hard earned money invested in making it a good game.

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I'm sure there many players (me included that like to test a game, either with a demo or by borrowing a game from friends) and the players who already own GC2 are very likly to buy the expansion if they like what they see.

This is exactly the type of player that does not belong in a beta. A beta is not a 'demo' or a 'free trial'. It is a bug testing/squashing period. I have beta tested several games (mostly MMORPGs) where the mindset of the players is that its just a chance for them to play the game for free. I'd see them complaining on the chat/forums about a bug that interferes with thier play experience, but when asked to report it through the proper channels the answer is 'thats too much hassle'. The result? A buggy release.

I think that having the beta open only to the pre-orders is a damn good idea, at least then the testers have some incentive: they have thier hard earned money invested in making it a good game.

actully its good marking stgy to release it to every one who already bought game people who would steal this form company, are not going to be able to try beta if its requires regsitartion.

secondly the beta could have a time period on it example when a certain date comes around beta software just terminates it self aka you cant play it unless you regsiter aka buy it, to keep using it.

at which case beta to keep this so you cant crack it could require connection to internet to play, where it then could froce an athurazation to a server like quake 4 dose.

but really buttom line is if people like it they will buy it if they dont then they wont, but if its such great product and if company really truely belives in what there trying to sell us, then why hid it why not give every one chance to try it and see, if its really so awesome majority of every one who trys it will at some point buy it.

any time a sales man comes to me and says hay we have this awesome product it dose this this and this, but you cant see it or anything unless you give us money. always makes me little worrdy about the product.

it makes you wonder if theres something to hid.

only companys that should half to depend on the you half to give us money befor you can see prodcut appourch are companys that have a poor prdocut to sell in frist place a company that has a good prodcut that people will like never half to worry about getting people to buy the product.

which is the sole reason galactic civlizations 2 did so well.

only time people steal something or take advtange of something is usally out of hate aginst company, or if item is a bad prodcut the price out ways the features.

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Vermicious hit the nail on the head. This is nothing to do with play-testing, this is about bug-squashing. There are far too many people complaining about the buggy game now, and they don't know what they're talking about, or how to use a debug.err.

Allowing everyone to beta-test an expansion is not a good idea in terms of "omg this is so buggy", the 1.2 betas proved that much.

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Alpha testing is final testing before the software is released to the general public. First, (and this is called the first phase of alpha testing), the software is tested by in-house developers. They use either debugger software, or hardware-assisted debuggers. The goal is to catch bugs quickly. Then, (and this is called second stage of alpha testing), the software is handed over to the software QA staff people who are hired to do profesonall testing, for additional testing in an environment that is similar to the intended use. Following beta testing, "beta versions" of the software are released to the public , tests are performed to see how generl public relates to the prodcut, so that further testing can ensure the product is user friendly. Other times, beta versions are made. The goal is to benefit from the maximum number of future users and for marketing and also to catch smaller annoince over major bugs, there is also usally only month to two months befor product hits shelfs. any game that depends on beta to catch major bugs is going to be a game with problems. beta is not for major bug squashing. the 1.2 betas proved that relying on beta to catch major bugs is a failur of in house alpha testing. you can tell any time a software company did not do proper testing of there software. if beta is full of bugs then in house programs and testers did not do there job and game or prodcut was pushed out the door to fast. by time a prodcut hits beta it should be pretty good to go, with few minor giltichs or unseen issues. mostly by this stage its used as a marketing tool.

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my last post

speaking of bug testing the forum seems to have a bug. the indents and spaces i put into the post above seem to have vanished after i posted it. for some reason the forumed squashed everything that was written all into one huge thing.

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well, I'd certanly like to help beta test the DA expansion

I've had a little experience with beta testing in MMOs, but beta testing a single player game is different from beta testing a patch/update to an MMO. and I'd certainly want to have the expansion be as good as it can get

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disregard

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i wouldnt mind getting in on beta but i wouldnt pay for prodcut thats not finnished.

behonest i didnt buy galatic civlziations 2 till the last patch becuase i felt that it fixed majhority of issues with the game.

if i remember right they did a limited close beta for that and when it frist came out it had tons of bugs, and issues, so we already know how ever they do testing its probably not going to work unless they change how testing is done.

but if they dont i probably wont buy the expasion till after couple patchs come out or till i read forums about it.

only way id buy it befor then is if i was able to see product frist.

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This is exactly the type of player that does not belong in a beta. A beta is not a 'demo' or a 'free trial'. It is a bug testing/squashing period.

I know that its not a finished "demo".
I do know pretty well that there a bugs in a beta and it has major balancing do be done. However you could have a peek of the FEATURES.
I played a lot of early demos with lots of bugs in them and bought the game because I knew they would fix these bugs.
However I dont know many games where they changed the whole gamplay or added tons of features later.
And do you think that just because people preordered the expansion they automaticaly
know how to use a debug file and post serious reports on the right place?
Also Im not talking about a "Free for all" beta but a beta for people already bought GC2. So it would be for people who want to get a better game.

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if i remember right they did a limited close beta for that and when it frist came out it had tons of bugs, and issues, so we already know how ever they do testing its probably not going to work unless they change how testing is done.

I'm sorry, but thats blatantly crap. The reviews it got were all from the release version, and were all amazingly high. I was around before release, after reading the P-A article, and was very impressed by the handling of the testing. The 2 major bugs were caused by out of date drivers (which is entirely consumer's fault) and overheating issues, which was something that really isn't fair to blame stardock on, seeing as it's an unknown issue. Running a powerful vid card on an outdated machine caused the card to overheat, and that was fixed very quickly. In house- developers. Alpha- developers, selected few. Beta- public bug testing. Not a demo in any way. It's still about bugs, and they get squashed quickly.

when it frist came out it had tons of bugs, and issues

List all of them, and then talk. Until then, you really should get a clue. I have NEVER seen a company work this efficiently.

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BTW, for people that were in the beta (and especially the limited gamma testing), the game was solid. But when it hits general release, by reading the post you got the impression that it was rushed. But that was an impression. And the bugs could be categorized in the following way:
- bugs linked to material configuration (overheating)
- bugs linked to incorrect software configuration: need latest drivers, a minimum resolution, enough memory, having a working DirectX 9.0c
- bugs that were spotted during the beta but weren't found critical enough compared to others to be fixed (fixing crash were more important). That were the kind of bugs easily spotted after few minutes of play but that didn't prevent to play the game. And generally beta testers knew them and use automatically some workarounds
- bugs that were appearing due to new way to play the game. As one can expected, developpers and beta-testers were generally playing GC2 the same way during all the beta, and came generally from a GC1 background. More having played the game at various beta stages means that you didn't have a fresh look and a new way of testing things in the latest beta
- bugs that appear at the latest stages of the game. And those things are pretty difficult to track since it involves lots of time to reach those points and suppose that features in the game are all implemented: being able to have a lots of sensors ships with 42 sensor range in gigantic galaxy to detect a performance problem isn't really made in 5 minutes.
- bugs that were spotted by some users during the beta but were not reported during the beta under the false assumption that: it is a beta, it is normal to have bugs, I won't use the time to report it as it would be fixed in the final release. Too bad, as no report was made, the dev team couldn't fixed it
- inconsistencies between the manual and the way things were working in the final release. And excellent example was the way unused social production was handled
- bugs that due to misunderstanding of the design decisions by the user: the feature was working as intended by the dev team but not as though by the user. There are also side effects of design decision that looks strange to the user. For example, what happen to the size taken by some components when miniaturization increase
- enhancement to improve the gameplay that were incorrectly labelled as bug
- things that were reported as bugs during the beta but were no official word was made from the dev team in the forum if it was really a bug or a feature. An example of that is the false turn on reload problem

I am pretty sure I have forgot some cases. But it should explain why not everything was spotted during the beta or why not all detected bugs were corrected during the beta.

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OK... Let's delineate the differences between alpha and beta releases: ALPHA- The first run copies of any game are considered Alpha. The may or may not include ALL the game engine and features. Alphas are almost always completely in-house, and are mainly used to look at graphics, test various features and limited play-testing of areas. Alphas are primarily used to find and correct 'glaring'(ie, obvious or game-stopping in normal play) bugs and glitches. BETA- Betas are generally 'cleaned-up' or refined versions of the game that are generally considered ready for extended play-testing. Beta versions may or may not include "public-testing" (ie.. some companies actually hire professional personnel or companies to "play-test" their software under controlled and documented conditions, and all bugs or glitches discovered are carefully documented.). Again, Betas are usually EXPECTED to have various minor bugs and glitches, and may even be missing features that are to be included in the final release. GOLD- Gold is the "final release" version of the software that is what will actually be shipped or downloaded. Gold is considered to be the "Master version" of any software release, thoroughly (hopefully) tested and having the widest compatibity of all previous versions.

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Well, I have now pre-ordered GalCiv 2 - Dark Avatar.

I hope it will be possible to DL the new expansion pack. When I pre-ordered GalCiv 2, I was just too late to try out GalCiv 2 - Beta. Hoping this time to get a preview of the new expansion.

TIP

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I hope it will be possible to DL the new expansion pack.

It won't be in the shops, it's download only. But you may also get a disc shipped to you, if you wish.

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Let's delineate the differences between alpha and beta releases:

Great, but Stardock view the things a bit differently, if you judge this post https://forums.galciv2.com/?forumid=162&aid=64347

And there was a post-morterm that could be found here http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20060405/wardell_01.shtml explaining in the 3 part what went wrong with some nice conclusions about how to improve the beta testing.

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i wouldnt mind getting in on beta but i wouldnt pay for prodcut thats not finnished.

The beta is not a finished product. You would not be paying for the beta, you would be paying for the eventual final release of the expansion and the devs are throwing in early access to the beta.

If you play GC2 you know how much it kicks ass. You also probly noticed how quick Stardock has been about releasing patches that both fixed bugs and added new features - any bugs that do make it to release will be fixed in short order. You know your going to buy the expansion anyway so why not pre-order?
You already have a feel how the game plays and the features to be added in the pack have been pretty well detailed already.

For PC gamers bugs/patches are a way of life.

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Did I just read this entire thread and not one person mentioned $$$$$?

Why would I pre-order the game other than to be nice to your guys (not saying you don't deserve it)?

By pre-ordering you get $5 off the retail price!! That's like.... _almost_ 2 gallons of gasoline, man!

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