Achilles' Heel

As with all fights with dreadlords, i found the best way was to send waves upon waves of my own men against them (armed with sticks because giving them weapons would be expensive) and after you kill a dreadlord (or drown them in corpses) bury them under a rock, and make sure its a big rock - then nuke the rock from orbit. twice.

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Well the better your tech the better you fight agains Dread Lords.
Aso there are only few of them (remember in Seige scenario) they atacked by 10 , this 10 at first could easily defeat my planet with 8000 fighters , but later in scenario the namber of "casualties" went down as tech went up and before victory I was loosing about 1000 troups defending the planet.

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I haven't beaten this one yet but remembering Seige I would go with KiRon's plan. Build up a fleet of a few groups of fighters to fight off their battleships and create a couple of star bases to get you to their planet. You have to research technology for your ground troops. Getting marines and using mass drivers or tidal destruction (which I think gives you +15 to your troops).

If you get all of the research done you will be able to win the ground battle. Just have enough ships to protect your transports and take out the defending fleet and you should be okay.

Remember your goal is to take the planet. So as your building your fleets you might want to move them away from your planets. You don't have to hold both of them to win. As your technology builds up you will be able to fight off ground invasions of your planets anyway.

Hope that helps.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

If it hasn't been rebalanced from the gamma, you can simply rush-buy a Transport and a Constructor (IIRC you begin with the needed techs). Send them both towards the corner of the map, have the Constructor build any starbase to extend your range. Send the Transport on and invade the DL planet before they can build anything.

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Nope, they will have a defender there by that point. You ought to make and send a fleet or stack with enough firepower to takeout 13hps at once.

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OK , finished this one quete differently then I expected.

There was several key points :

1. At start buy ships and buildings as fast as possible , start with star ports - make sure you control as much planets as possible - you have plany cash.

2. Trade and give away technology each time you researched anything new to both your allies, you can't do it alone, let the Altarians to "do the job" your job is survive that long.

3. The D. Lords atack mostly concentrate on the "middle" so left and right planets are uneffected at least at first.

4. Develop ground combat tech and planetary invasions as fast as possible - you can't really fight D. Lords in space for long long time , so you have to "repulse" invasions.

5. If you sure some planet will not stand another attack that comming - give it to Altarians.

At the end I had only 3 planets but Altarians did the job for me.

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I am currently playing this mission on Tough after handing the DLs their arses in Siege on Normal. I have to admit it is bloody hard, I hav already lost 2/3 worlds to the evil rushing DLs. I just can't hold them back long enough, the allied trade routes are getting slaughtered and my allies are ready to give up, only the space slugs the Torians are do well, but they are under constant siege from DL escorts.

I've managed to trade just about every piece of technology anyone as gotten, if I can't get a tech swap I just give it away, all my allies have warp drive and plasma cannons long before we should. We nicked it off the DLs after a planetary conquest. I am research all the planetary complex techs like industry and banks. I'm trying to literately out buy the DLs. If I can maintain a good economy between the allies I think I can mass buy a fleet to deal with the DLs. But any the moment all looking grim, but rest assured the people of terra know not the word defeat!

J

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I just finished it on normal yesterday after the 5th try. It was surprisingly easy. I didn't rely on stolen DL tech either.

The first thing to notice is that the troop odds are very different when you're invading. When you defend, it's like 300 to 2. When you invade (even traditional), it's like 10 to 100. 1000 troops can consistently beat 20 DL with about 200 survivors. Leaving your planets unprotected and building really fast transports that you locate out of sensor range but within one turn of your planet is an important tactic. You can reinvade before they get defenses in orbit. They are really sloppy with that. You can get tech this way, and in prior games I tried to rely on this tactic to get advanced tech. It didn't work; I slowly lost ground, but the transport tactic is a key part of the overall strategy.

Do not be worried about defending your turf! You'll waste ships. I built fast ships that I kept out of DL range until they formed large fleets. With the transport tactic, you don't have to be concerned about controlling your airspace. It's a losing proposition.

The other thing to notice is your funds. It's only 20K Unlike the siege campaign (30K), you can't rush buy ships to victory. I only rushed two ships, both transports to take worlds about to be lost. (If you wait until the planet is lost before you rush, it's too late. In that one turn, they'll put something in orbit.)

I set funding to 100%, and set military/social/research to 50/0/50. I rush bought improvements on every planet on every turn. When planets were largely developed, I set the sliders to 45/10/45 just so that upgrades could be built without my micromanagement. I didn't beeline for any techs. I researched every tech that made sense: economic, industrial, research, propulsion, weapons. I skipped shields and armor; all of my ships had no defenses. I also skipped starbase defenses, but researched the starbase ship enhancements.

I didn't do a land grab. Instead of heading north, I headed west, and only grabbed two planets: Sander I and the one to the west closest to the DL world. The Torians basically got everything else. I gave them tech, and they kept the DL at bay. Only one of their worlds was at risk (the one closest to the DL in the east), and it was swapped back and forth like a hot potato. I put up economic and military starbases BEHIND the key planets (the west one and Outpost 22). The DL went for the Outpost 22 once late in the game. The beam boost was very helpful in getting the skies clear enough to reinvade a newly lost planet. Since you rely on the first strike, those extra damage are critical to killing in the first or second rounds. I typically only lost one ship out of a fleet of three when engaging fighters or escorts. Battleships I destroyed after losing two fleets of three ships.

The DL only consistently had one world. This was critical. I kept airspace around the Torian world clear so Torian transports could get in. All DL forces were engaged with the Torians, only three times did fighters or battleships wander down to Outpost 22, but I kept my ships out of range, and they left. They tried sending a transport once targetting the Altairian world, but I poached it. They only kept a defender around their home. After I got enough fleets, I rushed in and took it with one transport. Mission accomplished.

It was surprisingly bloodless, given the blood I lost in the previous 4 tries. I should also note that I didn't get any spectacular planetary bonuses on this try, so I think I have a pretty solid strategy that can be applied in general.

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LOL! The Dreadlords in my level of difficulty have a tech bonus of 300,000+ LOL! 10Mil DLs can wipe the floor with 5Bil without breaking a sweat...

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Or... sometimes you have to accept defeat. The DL are too powerful. Give it your best shot, and if they beat you, accept it and relax for a while on the alternate missions route.

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I feel a little silly responding to a 4 year old post, but I'm having problems with the same scenario.

Problem number one, the DL are just too strong. I had 6 of the 13 planets on the map (Terran 6, Altarian 4, Arceanian 1, Torian 1, DL 1). A DL Transport with 10M took one of my planets that had a population of 500M, with no casualties. I sent a small fighter with better numbers than the Snark against the DL home planet with no success. In Siege I had the faster ships and led the DL ships away from the action like a mother bird. Not now, they are faster.

Problem number two, my allies are no help (playing on tough). My general approach has been to take any deal (not including much money) my allies would accept that included a tech for me. Never mind I was giving up techs valued 5 times as much sometimes, as long as I got something. I didn't just give them techs since it was apparrent I would need techs later to trade for the AI's next tech. I guarded my money carefully and took bits of theirs when possible since I seem to use it more effectively.

Now, in November of the first year, the Altarians and Arceans are bankrupt. Their ship maintenance is more than their income and they are out of money. Ergo, no research or production of any kind. The Torians will be bankrupt soon. I'm afraid if I just give them credits, they will spend it on more ships and be bankrupt again soon (kind of like dealing with grown kids). If I give them techs to improve their economies they don't have the ability to build the banks or whatever.

This looks hopeless!

I appreciate the advice of other posters here. If I must start over I'll set the difficulty level higher, I'll only grab two extra planets and get more transport killers deployed quickly. Sigh!

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Maiden666

Join Date 12/2008

+62

One basic problem I see here is that your ships are too slow. You cannot have space superiority against the DL's unless you've finished a good part of the Techtree, and this usually takes years. Which leaves you only to evade their strong ships, while aiming at vulnerable targets (bases, weakly guarded planets).

Another thing is that you absolutely must ensure that you won't loose planets to them. 500m people is waaayyyy too less - rather go for >10b.

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Still struggling! I guess from the Maiden666 response I'm trying to move too fast. Before I got that message I went back and tried to go faster. I set the difficulty up to crippling to help my allies. I used a two step rush to build all my early ships (buyan empty hull and then upgrade it). I beelined colony ships to the two planets closest to Teth. Since in my first game the DLs only defended Teth with a beatable looking ship (Sarak 2/0/0 0/0/0) for a long time my plan was:

Take the two closest planets to extend my range.

Bring in medium sized ships that could beat Sarak.

Follow quickly with 2 transports with 1B troops each.

As I was getting close to achieving those steps, I got close enough to see the DL had an extra defender, and a strong one at that.

I hoped to lure the strong defender out by building a military starbase nearby. That didn't work and now there's a DL scout with 11 speed lose in the galaxy.

I got the plan in place in about 3 months but It doesn't look like it's going to work. As I understand the tie rule, no number of single medium ships will ever eliminate a much stronger DL ship. As I wait to discover logistics abilities, I feel like I have lost the window of opportunity for a quick first strike.

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I spent nearly three years hunkering down and developing. I made as many tiny beamers as I could and grouped them eventualy in fleets of 8 ships, 16 logistics. I intercepted the DL transports and killed the escorts and fighters that came out to fight. Several times I thought my protecting group was cut too small but I was always able to rebuild before the DL attacked again.

I built a military starbase 8 spaces from Teth. I assembled my ships between the mil starbase and Teth. I stationed a Paper Tiger west of Teth to intercept DL transports. My allies were very helpful. If I saw they were researching a tech I had I would trade that tech plus whatever for one of their ships.

In December of 2229 Teth was only defended by a Defender and Sarak. I had three fleets of 8 tiny beamers in range and 2 transports (1B troops each) within 2 turns. Done deal!

The scariest part was trying to get to a standoff. Once I achieved a standoff, I just out researched and produced them.

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In this kind of missions I go for a strategy that follows in this order:

1. When facing the Dread Lords, I guess its a good idea to spend points in these abilities; speed, soldiering, hit points, research, and as always creativity.

And the federalist is my favorite. I go for it mostly. As the first economic points cost 2 points, I use this points on other abilities instead, as the federalist gives the 20% economic boost.

2. Try to get as many planets as possible, (colonyrush), the more planets you have the more ships can be built (if you have a starport in the planets will say). If I remember right I think you start with around 10000BC in this mission so its not a bad idea to buy colonyships directly, so you can be first to get the planets. The colonyship cost is around 1300BC.

3. Once you have the planets get ships on them so you can be avoided from invading DLs transports. Build ships with no maintainance (no weapons and that stuff and takes not much weeks to complete). Why no maintainance on ships? - because in the begining you don't have the weapon tech that are able to withstand DLs combat ships. The point is to block the DLs transports from invading. And about planetary improvements get at least 2 industri buildings and the great "Recruiting Center", as it gives 10% economy and 20% population growth for your planet. A good start for new colonies.

4. Try to have one of your planets specialized. That is to say, one that have lots of research improvements (research lab or even the better ones) and lastly build the technological capital on it and after that click on the research focus button on the planet. This will be your research planet. The point is that you get the needed tech faster for the strategy.

5. Now research the sensor techs. Try to get the ultimate sensor tech so you can build the "Eyes of the universe". But if it gets too difficult just go for ships that you equip with lots of sensors and range support. The point is to see the DLs ships (especially the transports) from long range. And more important is to have your ships with sensor equipment speed stuffs (Impulsedrive, or 2 Iondrives), so that you can outmanuvere the DLs attack ships. After that go for weapon techs and avoid researching weapon tech that the opponet have defense tech for. Specialize a ship (small hull) that have some sensor, impulsedrive, range support and lastly weapons so it have up to 4-6 attacks. The point for this ship is both - to take out the incoming DL transports and when a DL combatship targets your specialized ship try to avoid it from catching you (run in circule with it). Reasearch the "Planetary invasion" tech and get at least 2 transports.

6. As you now can manage to take care of the DL transports and the DL combatships you are able to build up your fleet, get them somewhere at the side of the galaxy map with the 2 transports and surround the fleet with a few specialized ships so that if a DL combatship are on the way to your fleet can instead target the specialized ship. It should work to get this DL combatship outmaneuvered by the specialized ship. Build many small ships with lots of attack, and research logistics techs (as the DL are not strong in number). Get one constructer so your ships are able to reach the DL planet.

7. Finally. First send some specialized ships to scout the sector where the DL planet are. And secoundly go forward with your fleet and transports. Take out the DL ships from orbit and invade with your transport as a fleet, (that will be 2000t.), take the massdriver or tidal disruptor invading tactics. This should end with you having taken the planet by a high probability.

I hope someone understand my point with this strategy, if not just ask so we can better understand it.

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I think your strategy is sound and much better formulated than mine was a month ago. I'm confident a beginner could take your suggestions and win this scenario.

I'm retired and spend hours a day gaming so I've progressed a great deal in a month. I have a few comments to stir discussions.

Quoting Mandrall,

reply 15

In this kind of missions I go for a strategy that follows in this order:

1. When facing the Dread Lords, I guess its a good idea to spend points in these abilities; speed, soldiering, hit points, research, and as always creativity.

Hit points won't help much. The DL ships may hit for 100 damage a shot. Just assume every shot will kill one of your ships whether it has 8 or 18 HP.

I would chose 2 speed, creativity and morale. Two speed will let you get away from the DL warships. You'll need to slingshot around a planet to create separation.

Quoting Mandrall,

reply 15

2. Try to get as many planets as possible, (colonyrush), the more planets you have the more ships can be built (if you have a starport in the planets will say). If I remember right I think you start with around 10000BC in this mission so its not a bad idea to buy colonyships directly, so you can be first to get the planets. The colonyship cost is around 1300BC.

I think it is always a better idea to take one extra turn to save nearly 40% on the ships. Design an empty cargo hull and buy one every turn for a while. It costs 492. On the second turn, design a bare colony ship and upgrade the empty hull for another 302. On turn three load up some colonists and head out. You've just saved 500BC per colony ship at the cost of one turn.

Quoting Mandrall,

reply 15

3. Once you have the planets get ships on them so you can be avoided from invading DLs transports. Build ships with no maintainance (no weapons and that stuff and takes not much weeks to complete). Why no maintainance on ships? - because in the begining you don't have the weapon tech that are able to withstand DLs combat ships. The point is to block the DLs transports from invading. And about planetary improvements get at least 2 industri buildings and the great "Recruiting Center", as it gives 10% economy and 20% population growth for your planet. A good start for new colonies.

Great Idea! I never thought of putting unarmed ships on planets to keep out the DL transports.

I start every new colony by purchasing a Recruiting Center (take the short lease). Unfortunately, it's not a 20% growth. It's a 20% increase in your growth. You won't go from 100m to 120m. If you were going to increase from 100m to 110m without the RC, you will go to 112m with it. It still makes a significant difference in the long run since it compounds.

More important, reduce taxes until the morale is 100%. At 99% morale (and I think any other green percentage) you getabout 5% growth and 100% morale gets about 10%. Spend that money you are saving on colony ships! While you are at it put military spending at zero and production at 100%.

Quoting Mandrall,

reply 15

5. Now research the sensor techs. Try to get the ultimate sensor tech so you can build the "Eyes of the universe".

In my version (2.02 TA) the Eyes of the Universe increases all ships sensor range to 15, so take sensors out of all future ship designs. It won't be over 15 sensor range no matter how many sensors on a ship design.

Quoting Mandrall,

reply 15

when a DL combatship targets your specialized ship try to avoid it from catching you (run in circule with it).

At the end of Apocalypse I had over 100 DL warships chasing my "transport hunters". With my speed around 15 and theirs at 6 it was easy to decoy the warships and occasionally break off and shoot down a transport and then resume trolling.

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It sounds very smart about the colonyship build thingy, very. Thanks for sharing the idea!

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Yeah, thanks for that. That's one that I hadn't figured out yet either. Now I'm a little sad that I spent most of my money on purchasing colony ships in a game I started yesterday.

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Quoting Mandrall,

reply 17

It sounds very smart about the colonyship build thingy, very. Thanks for sharing the idea!

I wish I could take full credit. Or even give credit. I read a similar suggestion and tried it and made it part of my standard approach. I think the same author suggested converting beginning constructors to colony ships and rebuilding the constructors later. I don't do that as much, but it would have been useful in some scenarios. (Apocalypse)

Another upgrade trick you can use when at war: Copy the design of your main warship into a similarly named design. You might have Thor V2 and Thor V2a. When your warship gets badly damaged far from a starbase, you can upgrade it to the "partner" design and repair it very quickly and cheaply. This is really handy when you have a "Command Center' carrying equipment that helps the whole fleet. If that ship has any weapons it will be the first attacked. Repairing it after almost every battle is essential.

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This is a bit of a necro, but I wanted to share an easy (and very fast) way to beat this mission in case others are still having trouble.

I'm playing with everything patched up to the latest versions and on Normal difficulty. I haven't tried it on other difficulties.

For abilities, I recommend getting Creativity, the first level of Speed, and then whatever else you can into Soldiering. I don't think even all that's necessary, though.

When you start, set your anomaly ship to Auto Survey. It will provide you with some goodies while you rush through the mission. Send your Constructor up towards the target planet and build a starbase at the edge of the Constructor's range when it gets there. It doesn't matter what kind, you just want the extended range. And send the scout ship up towards the target planet.

Start building on your planets, but buy the first couple buildings. I like to buy a Factory and Research Lab, then build the Recruitment Center (or buy it if you want). Set the production spending (or whatever it's called) to 100% and set your taxes down towards 15%, or whatever will get you 100% happiness. Start researching Antigravity, and once that's done, start researching Planetary Defense.

Buy a Colony Ship and send it up towards the planet closest to the target planet (off to the right of it). I don't believe this step is necessary, but I do it anyway to make sure I have the range along with the starbase. I just set the slider to 25 when launching it, as I don't intend to do anything on this planet.

After you've progressed through a few turns, speak to each of the races and see what ships they have. Two of the races will get 4-5 frigates each. Try trading your treaties, new technologies, and any reasonable amount of money for them. See if you can get the third race's ships, too. It may take a number of turns, so keep checking.

Once you get a large number of the ships, immediately send them up towards the target planet. You can buy a Battle Axe or two if you want, but it's probably not necessary.

Buy two transports at your homeworld. You should only need one, but two just to be safe. Send them up towards the target planet with full troop compliments.

By now you should have a large number of ships moving towards the target planet. Hopefully as you do this, your Creativity ability will let you finish Planetary Defense ahead of schedule (if not, don't worry). Keep checking the other races, as they'll replace their frigates and you can often get more.

You should be able to see the DL planet with your scout ship, so keep an eye on what they have in orbit. If you're really fast (or maybe lucky), only Sarak will be there. In that case, all these ships aren't necessary and you can just use one and a transport to win. If they have a real defender, though, you'll be glad you have all those ships from the other races.

At the very worst you'll only have one defender and Sarak to deal with. With all those frigates, it won't be an issue. Wipe out what they have by sending them in one by one to chip away at the defender. Eventually you'll kill it and Sarak, then invade with your troops. Pay for Gas Warfare to give you better chances and hopefully it only takes one transport. If not, that's why you have two.

Congrats, you just beat the mission!

To sum up, extend your range to the DL planet immediately and barter for the other races' frigates when you can. Buy yourself a couple troop transports and send everyone up to the DL planet. Win.

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Quoting Ebyl Vampyre,

reply 20

Start researching Antigravity, and once that's done, start researching Planetary Defense.

But after the tech "Artificiellgravity" you don't unlock the tech "Planetary Defense" or do you mean the "Planetary Invasion" tech? I guess its after the tech "Space Weapons" you unlocks does techs.

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You start that mission with various techs already unlocked. I'm pretty sure you can jump right to Planetary Defense.

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I see.

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Achilles' Heel

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