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Ashbery76
Ashbery76
Join Date 02/2002
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Surrender Monkeys.

February 26, 2006 7:13:02 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I just had a game ruined by the surrender mechanism.I was playing on large map with all 10 races.The game was really even, with about 5 or 6 planets each.But then war started, i ve had two of the races surrender after just losing one or two planets.I feel this needs looking at, the races were anything but finished.If they one or two planets left maybe,but 4,5 planets left, 70% of their economy intact and they quit, can't be right..
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Ashbery76
VelvetDevil
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #1 February 26, 2006 8:31:12 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I agree, I had a game in which one enemy race had been surrendered too early and quickly had as many planets under their control as all the other races combined. They held all systems in a wide stripe from one corner to the opposite corner. No way they did that on their own.
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Ashbery76
zbiggie
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 February 26, 2006 8:36:10 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
well even though they were large is size maybe the comp saw that it would be taken out no problem because it was behind in teck or its armies were way to spread out to be able to mount a good defence
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Ashbery76
waitingtoconnect
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 February 26, 2006 8:48:02 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
As a computer AI I've always been annoyed when humans quit at the first sign of being beaten by my superior intellect. And now that we do the same you meddlesome beings complain? Perhaps we just want to go off and play another game rather than be completely humilated? But are you sensitive to our feelings.... nooooooooooooooo.
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Ashbery76
Revan1138
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 February 26, 2006 9:06:45 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
LOL
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Ashbery76
Ryan Vincent
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #5 February 26, 2006 10:02:49 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
As a computer AI


Pull the other one, It has bells.

--

A.I's will surrender if they feel that all is lost, This occurs when someone is beating the crap out of them or their economy is so low its not funny.
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Ashbery76
Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #6 February 26, 2006 11:40:22 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I brought this up at Beta. It was looked at. To me its not nearly as bad as it was.. Sometimes before you met a certain race due to being on other side of a large map, they already lost a war to their neighbor and surrendered.. Thus you never met one. To my knowledge the AI doesn't hang in the towel at the first ounce of trouble... After a thorough pounding it will not DELAY the inevitable. Seriously.. Try playing on Tough. You'll be glad to get a surrender when you can. Saves me the trouble.. Hmph.
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Ashbery76
Pucci2099
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #7 February 27, 2006 2:15:07 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
haha yep , I was leading the galaxy in research then Altarians and Torians made an alliance and started pwning everyone else and the surrender flags kept going up and up. Next thing I knew it was me and their wicked alliance then the culture hammer dropped and the Torians started losing their systems one by one and the entire galaxy turned Altarian blue....

but worst of all they made me drink Slurm Cola , I really hate Slurm Cola....
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Ashbery76
Ashbery76
Join Date 02/2002
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Reply #8 February 27, 2006 1:05:03 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Well it ruined what was going to be a fun game and I was playing at intelligent level.Brad said he hated it when players would just quit in multiplayer, why the hell is the A.I doing the same.Like I said two A.I players had only lost 1/4 of their Empires, why the hell should they quit so easy.

If the A.I was down to last planet or two with no Fleet then fair enough, they should surrender.
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Ashbery76
Lamb Chop
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #9 February 27, 2006 1:32:39 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
I agree,
also the surrender message they send you is last kick on the teeth.

"We know we can't beat you so we surrender to xyz."

I can see the reasoning but can't AI at least try to fight longer?

Here is a tactic i use to overcome this but you need massive diplomacy advantage to pull it off.

Build Fleets and position them near planets that you wish to pay a *touristic* visit, backed up by your hoardes of tourists in transport ships. Attack invade all you can and make peace in same turn. if you are lucky you may even get 1-2 more planets out of AI for making peace. Believe me they are willing after losing 4-5 PQ15 or above planets in 1 turn.


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Ashbery76
monsterfurby
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #10 February 27, 2006 1:44:47 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Sure, surrendering early (and especially to other species not involved in the war) is not really fun and can destroy the whole balance, but it's quite realistic.
I recently had a game where I invaded the last system controlled by the Drengin. After losing one of their two planets, the Drengin surrendered to me because their forces were utterly beaten and since I had decimated Earth to about 200 million inhabitants a few years earlier, it seemed perfectly logical. It seems more logical to surrender than to have your entire race brought to the brink of extinction. I have however noticed that the Altarians and Humans are a little tougher than the other races - actually the humans recently (same game, a little later) made a really hopeless "battle of the line"-type last stand (funny my race used the Minbari Symbol and race picture too...) - something the Drengin would never have dared.
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Ashbery76
pokerface2012
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #11 February 27, 2006 2:18:10 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Same thing happened to me and it totally ruined the entire balance of the galaxy. I was doing so good, I was peaceful and powerful. All of a sudden I get dragged into a war because of an alliance. I didn't even take any of the enemies planets and after only a few turns they give up and give all there planets to the next most powerful civ after me. It totally wrecked all my borders which I thought was strange since I had the lead in population and influence. i thought my borders would expand with less civilizations out there but they shrunk instead....go figure?
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Ashbery76
DocZoid
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #12 February 27, 2006 2:40:56 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Perhaps a "Fight to the death" option could be added, as a game option?
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Ashbery76
winterlight
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #13 February 27, 2006 3:00:07 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
If this were a WWII game, would Japan surrender to Burma in the end?
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Ashbery76
amaevis
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #14 February 27, 2006 3:09:04 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Does anyone know how the calculations to decide who to surrender to work?

If the premise for surrender is to spare your people from further struggle, then you should surrender to someone who can guarantee you safety from your enemies. That usually means surrendering to a neutral party that's powerful enough to deter war with the ones who are beating the stuffing out of you.

If I want planet A, and the AI is surrendering to someone else to spite me, they should choose someone who is strong enough to protect planet A from me and is neutral. This third party shouldn't be my friend, otherwise the whole point of surrendering to someone else to spite me doesn't work. On the other hand, if who they surrender to is already my enemy, then I'll just take planet A. And if they surrender to someone who is neutral and weak, then I'll just declare war on this weak party and take planet A anyways.
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Ashbery76
Dracil
Join Date 10/2003
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Reply #15 February 27, 2006 3:24:52 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If this were a WWII game, would Japan surrender to Burma in the end?

If this were a WWII game, that would be Japan surrendering to Britain, because Burma did not achieve their independence from Britain until 2-3 years after Japan surrendered.
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Ashbery76
e-stab
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #16 February 27, 2006 3:35:59 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Perhaps a "Fight to the death" option could be added, as a game option?

I'd welcome that.
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Ashbery76
Todd_Hawks
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #17 February 27, 2006 4:00:55 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Also, the surrendering to someone else just to spite you is way too excessive. You can wage a lot of wars and end up with two or three new planets while the other AIs gain a dozen without doing anything because they always surrender to them instead of to you. It should only happen when they are really close friends, not just to annoy you.
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Ashbery76
QuestGAV
Join Date 12/2004
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Reply #18 February 27, 2006 6:12:31 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
It'd be more intriguing if maybe they gave up 1-2 of their planets (if that's all they have left to give) in exchange for an alliance to take out the aggressor. I think that'd be a more effective way to throw a monkeywrench into any galactic domination plan.
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Ashbery76
Domaru
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #19 February 27, 2006 6:58:28 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Imo the A.I. surrendering to other A.I. can really "ruin" the whole Situation gameplay-wise. In my actual game I had the Drengin surrender to the Yor after my first (unsuccesfull) attempt of invading one of their planets. The Yor territory was in the lower left map region with me being right center and the former Drengin being upper left! I mean any Yor vessel would have to cross my complete space to "protect" these newly aquired planets!
I agree with the basic Idea of A.I. surrendering as it spares you the annoiance of fighting on to the end, but I think it's a) a gameplay buster and somewhat illogical: I mean can you imagine Iraq surrendering to say Germany or France to avoid US Troops?
The A.I. should only surrender to its own allies or to an aggressor, otherwise the "neutrals" can take over the whole galaxy without firing a single shot....... Damn clever tactics of those dammend neutrals (Domaru remembers Futurama)
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Ashbery76
Ashbery76
Join Date 02/2002
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Reply #20 March 6, 2006 12:13:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Just had another marathon game ruined.The Torians gave up 9 planets! I repeat 9 planets.GC2 is a game that has limited amount of planets.I just can't understand why a race would give up half of his Civilization to flesh eaters on a whim.One or two planets left with no military,but 9 bloody planets left.

I hate it when humans quit in multiplayer and now I'm getting pissed at this.This surrender mechanism really needs changing,it is ruining games.
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