Unless you place the hyperion matrix on a precursor library. Not that it would be very amusing to restart as many times as it would take.

I did wait a little before building the Hyperion Matrix and my 3rd planet had a 300% research bonus. They're common enough to do this in most games.

The enormous research effort needed to get even the 1st level buildings is what makes it fun for me. I would just like to see a few more mp/rp when you get all the way to the end of those branches.

I concentrate on getting to Xeno Economics, start building market centers on all planets with more than 2B people, then go for Impulse Drive. I colonize lots of planets, but leave them empty until they get to 2B population. Each colony adds points to my research.

GS

The Thalans are probably fine as they are now. They are not defenseless early game, even without factories or laboratories. Their hyperion matrix allows for a great colonization rush, and can easily produce early military ships. Also, their lack of need for social production in the colonization rush allows better military spending, further improving their colonization ability, and research spending, limiting the weakness of their initially distant factories and laboratories. I wholeheartedly agree that the Thalan concept is interesting, but even with their diplomatic penalties, weak population growth and soldiering (which when combined with their strong laboratories, sheer embassy capability, or stong weapons branch makes them well-suited for a research victory, cultural victory, or especially ascension victory) I don't really see them as needing change in balance.

I would be curious to know what difficulty level those of you who are saying the Thalans do not require rebalancing are playing on. In my experience they are clearly weak compared with the other races on Suicidal, but I may well not be handling them optimally. Desmond, have you had success on Suicidal with the rapid expansion approach? I agree that is probably the best way to play them, but even still they seem markedly weak.

I have a very newbish question about the Thalan as I try out their tech tree: although they have very powerful defense modules for their starbases, they don't seem to have any starbase weapon modules at all. In my current game, a single Iconian fighter with a total attack rating of *three* snuck around my front line and easily destroyed a military starbase equipped with singularity armor.

Do the Thalan have starbase weapons somewhere in their tech tree that I'm overlooking? If not, I don't understand the purpose of having powerful defenses -- without any way to shoot back, the starbase always loses.

-Autistic Angel

I've found the Thalans to be pretty tough in most games. They tend to flip planets with ease, even if you turn influence victories off. They generally also have a fairly large navy. They're very tough to invade, because they can often flip planets back if you take them, and if they start colonizing worlds in your space, you can pretty much kiss those planets goodbye.