Diplomacy diologue » Forum Post by Grahamofboro

Light hearted comedy that was. There are two schools of thought on that, love a chuckle, atmospheric imersion. You're the immersion type, and tbh I am too. I like a joke, but I think I'd prefer the game without it.

The Fallout series is a similar story. I loved those games by the way. In Fallout 2 there were several random encounters (easter eggs) which spirited you away to re-enact moments of Monty Python and The Holy Grail. The Bridge keeper with his questions three. The (Brotherhood of Steel) Knights who say Ni! They were genuinely funny, but I did find that they jarred the atmosphere of the game.

It's certainly personal preference.

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I would prefer if the messages were formal by the leaders of the Civilizations. If you're at excellent relations with a certain Minor Race or Civilization like Drengin for example, the Lord of them should speak to you in an Militaristic speech with alittle asif I knew in you closely. Altarian Republican President should hail you, compliment you and than straight to business.

On the otherhand what should be taken into account in the AI of the empires is if they realize your overral military strength, visually, how much or none at all is patrolling your borders, etc. So if you're at Vendetta with Drengin he would denounce your Naval forces say how satisfying ____ blank planet would be in his iron fist, etc.
AI should respect you, compliment, wary, cautious, etc by emotions or dialouge depending upon your military buildup, patrolls, colonization efforts, conquering as a whole to how their personality is ethicly and ideology.

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Well, its true that it was lacking realism in terms of normal diplomatic behaviour but personally I liked the Drengins trying to snuggle me! But who is to say that alien cultures would communicate with us in such formal terms? Maybe aliens are much more comfortable with tactile communication?

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Lucky_Jack

Join Date 01/2002

+62

I guess I don't really care whether the dialog is 1) sarcastic 2) realistic 3) formal 4) nice 5) complementary 6) or what ever. What I would like would be lots and lots of possibilities so that the responses didn't get old so quickly.

But then, that isn't likely to happen unless Stardock asked us to help them build the files to support it. It would take too long for their small staff to flesh out such responses.

How about if Stardock designed the support for the response files so we could submit text files with responses. They would have to have tags to indicate, just to mention a few, 1) what screen 2) what alignment 3) how close in relations 4) relative diplomatci skill 5) relative military strength 6) relative economic strength 7) relative influance overal 8) relative influence in spacial proximitry 9) amount of trade with 10) a list of situational cases 11) response's attitude (such as sassy, hopeful, domineering, antagonistic, placating, etc. etc. etc. 12) and text of the reply.

Not an easy job, but the response files would be much richer if they came from 1000s of people than if they came from just a dozen people, and would have a much richer blend of responses. (How many Stardockers are working on GC2? Since I have seen only about 6 I could identify, I suspect there are only about 12.)

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Very authentic suggestion but I dont feel in the future that would ever come about.

But an good point, players can communicate regularily with the Civilizations to increase Relations so thats one hell of an area that needs immense amount of context so people don't get tired of that feature.

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My feeble minded suggests that GC1 used several factors to determine a races attitude towards you, be it friendly, aggressive, terrified etc. I think it worked pretty well, it just maybe lacked a little in variety. I imagine Stardock would love to hear players ideas for "greetings messages", so don't be shy to suggest.

But back on the original point of the thread, why did everyone think about the tongue in cheek dialogue? Do you like it or want a more serious tone through out the game?

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I'd prefer it'd be more realistic. The Civilizations can be cordial, make an joke but to the end they'll ask what is your businnes enemy, friend, ____Your name. Formal with alittle mix of Imformality. Maybe if you have excellent relations with Altarian you could... See the President's Daughter, 13, 14, 22... She has long blue hair, a leather top with her nations symbol on the, ...right side of tank top...Hairs like my avater...

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Some nice ideas in this thread the more variety in responses the better, engrosses you more in the game in my opinion. I definatley prefer realistic responses, dont get me wrong the odd bit of humour in the messages is good as long as it is not overdone. Bit more depth in the diplomacy would be good as it is one of my favourite aspects of empire building games. What game has the best diplomacy? My vote goes to Alpha Centauri

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Alpha Centauri. Medicore. Every damn time you bring up an Diplomatic interface with once of the Factions they always offered something, bribed, harassed, Vendetta bull...
Anyway I can't decide which RTS/Space-Sim has brought upon me an unique strong Diplomacy system. MOO-3 and Paradox Hearts of Iron 2. Can't decide on which because I haven't really thought any Diplomacy system was good.

StarDock I feel is providing an excellent game to bear but they're, the Staff hasn't realized the indepthness of the Space-Combat, Invasion, Diplomacy, etc that many, many people would expect. They're thinking this, is an game made by, around 60 people who're Death-Corps.

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Alpha Centauri. Medicore. Every damn time you bring up an Diplomatic interface with once of the Factions they always offered something, bribed, harassed, Vendetta bull...
Anyway I can't decide which RTS/Space-Sim has brought upon me an unique strong Diplomacy system. MOO-3 and Paradox Hearts of Iron 2. Can't decide on which because I haven't really thought any Diplomacy system was good.

StarDock I feel is providing an excellent game to bear but they're, the Staff hasn't realized the indepthness of the Space-Combat, Invasion, Diplomacy, etc that many, many people would expect. They're thinking this, is an game made by, around 60 people who're Death-Corps.

Your description of the alpha centauri screen makes it sound quite good. If the opponents are offering a wide rnge of offers/threats etc surely its working properly? Maybe I misunderstand you.

Unfortunately I don't understand your second paragraph at all. You call GC2 excellent than seem to call of its components sub standard. 60 people who are Death-Corps? I have no idea what that means.

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...Okay Alpha Centauri's Diplomacy system. Whenever you just want to coordinate something or offer an tech they are always bothering you with War declarations, "Will you assist me"? Join me, pact, EVERYTIME and its annoying.

Heh. StarDocks GalCiv-2 team I feel doesn't seem to understand the complexitiy, the major improvements everybody is expecting or majorly... Because well I noticed that their was an Transport loaded with 1000th. I suppose that means Planetary-Invasion is going to be simple. That means you load em up on and drop em off an planet. Producing Troop quantites as ships would be far more better offering Stats, etc.

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So you're saying that Alpha centauri's diplomacy triggered too often and constantly changed to the point it interrupted with getting on with the game. Fair comment, but if the frequency of diplomacy 'offers' was decreased, do you think it would have been a good system?

Heh. StarDocks GalCiv-2 team I feel doesn't seem to understand the complexitiy, the major improvements everybody is expecting or majorly...

Think I get you now, you're saying that Stardock isn't changing enough of the game mechanics. I think the problem here isn't that Stardock aren't paying attention, it's about money. Stardock are a small and independent developer. They aren't being backed by a major publisher who hands them a big wad of cash every month. That means there are limits to what they can and cannot do.

A tactical fleet battle 'subgame' in 3D for example would be expensive and highly time consuming to do, so won't be in GC2. Stardock just don't have the spare man power or money to do it along with everything else they are working on. Instead we get a feature such as ship design, which over 12 months ago more of of us said we wanted.

Ultimately Stardock are working to a budget and a deadline. GC2 will be a huge step forward from GC1, but we can't expect to see everything on our wish lists. Let's compare GC1/GC2 to Moo2/Moo3. Moo3 tried to make massive strides forwards by reworking everything. It went to a 3D map, 3D combat, complex diplomacy, complex ground combat, very complex colony management and more. It had major backing and fell flat on its face. They tried to do it all and failed. The game was delivered late, so the graphics weren't looking as new as they were supposed to do. It was confused and had lost its personality. It had some crippling bugs in it, the release version's AI almost never invaded colonies. It was a great big messy disappointment.

Why did it fail? The developers bit off far too much. They didn't do any of it very well and lost contro, of their own game. If Stardock tried to do everything we wish they would do GC2 would miss its release date, they would run out of money to finish the game, it would very likely have to come out unfinished and that could kill the company. Much better to make the game work well and be fun, even if it means it's a little more simplistic than some might like.

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I just thought that it would be unlikely that official contact with alien governments would say 'give us a big virtual hug'.

It seems unlikely for a Vulcan ambassador, or a race of intelligent machines. But more exotic races might be very emotional. The GasBags of Jupiter might be an open species, the Krabs of Pluto might be a very closed species. The energy beings of the Aluth Star Cluster might radiate joy or hatred with their every communique.

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Lucky_Jack

Join Date 01/2002

+62

but I dont feel in the future that would ever come about.

You may be right. But consider: They did this kind of thing with social improvements, ships, star base modules, etc. etc. etc.. So they have done some of the basic things already.

It seems unlikely for a Vulcan ambassador

Also correct. Which means there would have to be something in the race definitions that describes the "normal" demeanor of a civilization, such as a true/false table for the various different diplomacy tones.

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