ins11

Join Date 03/2003

PC Gaming - Threatened?

How my hobby is starting to end being a hobby..

I remember [Well, actually I dont, but I will pretend I remember and describe something..] many years ago, when I woke up one Saturday morning.

The sun was shining through a small opening in the curtains and the birds were happily sending their 'THIS IS MY TERRITORY!' or 'HEY GIRLS!' signal to the surroundings.

I stood up, and I was happy. Happy because today I was going to take the bus into the city and purchase a new video game for my computer [AMiGA at the time] from the local game pusher [Dixons in Oslo, Norway].

Why was I happy? Probably because I was oblivious to all the consumer rights that I had gained through others valiant battles and because I knew that the product I purchased would work - with no strings attached.

Booting up my AMiGA [quickly] when I got home, i promptly inserted disk 1 of 10 and proceeded to being the installation of the game,. [Kings Quest IV?].
After the lengthy installation process.. I could place the discs inside the game box and store it on my game shelv, next to [All] the other Sierra games,
and I could play the game, with no hassles except the occasionall Guru Meditation.

It was a happy period of my life. and it was the height of my gaming hobby [It seems..].

Sure, games have gotten more advanced, better audio and graphics, more things to blow up or adventures to participate in... but something else has happened.. something sick and twisted. I am no longer 'respected' by the publishers as a customer and gamer.

You see. I could install Kings Quest and play the game without needing to have the installation medium available to me. This meant that I could have a disc with .mods in my drive, or a savegame disc, or anything I wanted while I was playing the game. Thanks to the fantastic screen systems on the Amiga I could just 'drag' the kings quest window behind my desktop and quickly switch between gaming and working [or whatever I wanted to do].

Lately I have the feeling that unless I have disabled X,Y,Z software and installed Starforce, Securom, Macrovision, Safedisc and whatnots Device Drivers [Hidden...] AND signed a 20 page EULA.. AND connected to their authorization service.. AND inserted the damn scratch-prone fragile DVD into my SLOT DVD-RW I am not able to enjoy my hobby.. and I know that they do not respect me enough as their customer to let me enjoy their products without being abused.

How would you like to ALWAYS be taken to the side at the airport and told to 'spread em' while somebody covers their hairy hand with double latex gloves.. every time you wanted to take an airplane. This is what happens almost every time you want to play a modern computer game. You are violated because of some "higher cause" those who violate you have misplaced their faith in.

But I am begining to wonder if some people actually like this abuse, some sort of S/M fetish where you are abused.. and come back for more. because once the pain is gone, its 'ooh soo good'.

Never minding that you are doing a disservice to everyone, including yourself although you are to blinded by gaming bliss to notice it.

The downfall of computer gaming on the PC platform is not caused by the so called pirates, or the terrorist gangs that sell you games for 2.95$ from a cardboard box in a alley behind the supermarket.

The downfall is caused by uncritical consumers and rabit fanboys. These fanboys may tell you one that that "I will never purchase games from that publisher, because they have starforce in theri games.. " but when Diablo 3 or Fanboy 4 is released, they will buy it immediately, even if it could require them to plug their finger on a fingerprint sensor to play the game.

The uncritical consumer and the fanbois fund a industry that does everyhting in its power to limit your rights over a product you purchase [Legaly] and even though in some cases they dislike it.. [Such as inserting the cd] they then abuse the work of the Crackers by downloading NOCD patches for those titles. Why is it Abuse? Because you pay money to fund a industry that is attempting to throw those who help make your game enjoyable in jail.
If you are going to take a stand in the consumer war you should pick your side fully, and not 'jump across the fence' any time you feel like it.

Every time you want to buy a game you should find out what their stance is on backups, if you can install the game on multiple computers, if you need always-on internet to play the game and if you require the installation media to be in the drive to play the game. If for any reason one of these issues go against what you feel you should be entiteled to do, under fair use and as a honest consumer, you should take the money and save them, or invest in other alternate gaming venues, such as Totalgaming.net or shareware titles [that are available in abundance] AND write the publisher of the software a letter explaning exactly WHY they lost you as a consumer.

Sure, they will ignore you, and your cause as well as your expressed oppinion will be ridiculed and loathed by above mentioned fanboys and uncritical consumers. But at least you have stuck to your 'guns' and kept your integrity. You will also have helped [Although some would argue "to no avail"] the rights of the consumer/customer.

If the computer industry want me as a customer I would expect them to show me the same respect and trust as I show them when I install their software on the computer system where "all" my personal and work related files are located. And that means no c:\*

deletion bugs such as with Pools of Radiance II. either.

Good thing I can still read books without being forced to use a certain lightbulb or sit in a specific chair. I could even let others read the book with me, read it to others or lend them the book. Even photocopy it and put it into my PC with OCR to read on my tabled PC. And I did'nt have to read through 25 pages of EULA and click "I Agree [to something I do not]" just to get there. Last year I bought 3 games. SaVage [Online NOCD], UT2004 [NOCd in PAtch #1 or #2] and Galactic Civilizations [That also prompted a purchase of a totalgaming.net subscription. Not as much because I wanted all the games there - no offence - but because I wanted to support a developer/publisher that showed me the trust/respect that I would expect from anyone when you are involved in a purchase].

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

I feel for you. I hate the way it all works now. One game that does not do all that to you is Galactic Civilizations. I mean, yes you install it and register the serial number but once that is done you are flying. You can play without the game disk, you an reinstall without the game disk from the internet. The model they use is prety good.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I agree and also am disappionted that all the new games require ultra-high speed P.C.s.
I got World of Warcraft for my birthday this week from my wife and can not use it due to my slow P.C., 500mhz is not enough. I can not return it because I opened it before reading that 700mhz is the minimum cpu. I will not buy another game for the P.C. and feel I have reached the endgame!

Today I bought a Playstation2 and a DS for the road.

Good Bye P.C. Gamimg!

AL Haines
Bangor,Pa.USA
Feb. 10th 2005

p.s. I have been a gamer since the late 70s and have spent thousands on games!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Blaming the industry for your switch to consoles because you have a very outdated game isn't really fair. Games advance as technology advances, they try to use the latest equipment to deliver the best experience possible. When you do that you have to let the lower end go most of the time. It's not possible to code a game that scales equally well from 500MHz to 3.8GHz. In the case of WoW, it scales much better than most of the other games that have recently come to market. I can play the game pretty well on my powerbook which is less than half as powerful as my PC. I know people that play WoW at the 1GHz mark and aside from turning down some features have no real issues

That's like saying because I can't play the latest XBox game on my Atari 2600 I'm giving up on consoles. Of course older equipment won't run newer games. Can your old 386 run the games you play today on your 500MHz? Probably not, but that's not the developer's fault.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I have to say first off that this was very nicely written.
Secondly I must say that the PC world has become a very need to buy type of scenario for a lack of better words.Much of the PC world is very unconsiderate in the fact that most of todays games require your computer be top of the line but in turn also make many old games obsolete.

For Example I have 4 very up to date computer and\or "Super Computers."I use these computers to play EQ,or Everquest for those not big into the gaming world.These games run fine on my computer as it is because of its modernization.However, I recently got into a Frenzy to play an old game or 2 that i haven't played for a long while,but enjoyed quite a lot back when top of the line games.I found myself trying to reinstall a game called Ultimate Domain or Genesia(Spelling?heh).I have errors about not being in Dos Mode but I have ways around that.However, I get to the installation and have to select my hard drive (default C:\) and switch it to my secondary (E:\). I push enter and get a : Invalid harddrive error.Thats fine and dandy I figure i can Just switch over to the Default C:\. Wrong! again another Invalid hard driver error. either my Computers running off nothing or i'm doing something wrong here.I've looked up the problem and the best solution i can come up with is that my Hard drive is far too up to date for this Ancient game.

Another golden Game bites the dust.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Helix the II:
Hehe, actually nope. I burned some files for work and some tv episodes for a friend, thats about it. got a good deal on the DVD+/-RW so I bought it.

Thanks for the comments everyone...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I hate that I have to follow traffic laws, put gas in this silly mechanical creation, pay insurance to use it, buy tags to legally drive it...etc... Why does the manufacturer add all of these things that are "annoying"? Is it perhaps because not everyone respects their property that they have spent good money on? Why do we have traffic laws? I don't know that I agree that it is inately our "right" to not have to deal with certain mechanisms that they put in place to avoid the theft of their property. Do you lock the door to your house? Why? Isn't it annoying to have to pull your key out every single time you want to open it?

My two cents...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Re RottyDawg: Although you can not compare a virtual product such as computer software with a physical product such as a car, not to mention the value of such an item (a car) being much much higher than that of a computer product (game).

Successfully updated karma reason!

Your are partially correct, but also wrong.

Publishers are to blame for much of the decline in PC gaming. Not because of copy protection, but because publishers dictate how a game should be made, and what should be in it and we all know, they are the LAST people you'd want telling you how to make a game. Publishers are fully willing to blow up a good francise, or a great game idea, with the lure of attracting "A broader Market" to a particular title. This is why so many games evolve into festering piles of garbage as they progress in sequals.

Publishers also screw developers out of their earned profits, further impeding development of followon titles by keeping development houses "Slaves" to the system. I can't tell you how many times from devs that I know, I hear they made $1-$2 per copy of their game sold.

Finally, the last set of people I blame are the so-called "Mainstream" gamers. These simpletons lack of intelligence and logic to play anything but the most basic games, and are usually attracted to games because of their licensed name. Their attention spans are a pathetic 5 minutes, if they can't get into a game, learn the mechanics, and blow through the first levels in 5 minutes, they close the game out, and tell everyone they know that "it sucks". Worse, many of these simpletons are working for magazine and internet game review sites (cough IGN), so they delude innocent people with their false imagry and cause further harm to the industry. Furthermore, mainstream gamers buy everything, and don't hold anyone accountable for their money.

Do you are right in that publishers shoulder much of the blame for the state of the industry, but not because of copy protection. If a game is great, and innovative, I don't care what copy protection it has, I will buy it, and enjoy it as a way of rewarding the developers that stuck to their guns. Publishers are to blame alright, but for other reasons.

To get gaming back on track, most hardcore or discerning gamers I know, have moved out of mainstream and all but ignore the mainstream garbage coming out from these big publishers. They hang around the indy and self published circles, the small development houses, and the retro gaming scene. We're sure a PC game crash is coming soon, and we've all gone underground to await the inevitable. When the crash happens, the big lousy publishers will move to consoles, the mainstream turdballs will go buy Xbox's, and then we'll be greeting with a good solid 5 years of quality PC games once again - before the next wave of mainstream turds arrives.

At least we hope it will unfold this way.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If you don't like something, don't buy it. I HATE Steam, and I refuse to buy Half-Life 2. I enjoyed the first one as much as my other favourite FPS game (Duke Nukem 3D), but since I HATE Steam, I refuse to buy the sequel. If I did give in, then I would have no right to comlain. I advise doing the same thing for any similar problem/issue you have. For example I did not buy Painkiller due to its secret installation of security drivers. They say to the consumers "fuck them", I say to them "right back at ya"..

Wasn't Guru Meditation directly influenced by a virus for the Amiga? That was mainly distributed through pirated copies?
I had an Amiga 1200 for a very short while (less than a year) and never encountered any such message, but others who did seems to always be because of a virus. Could be wrong though, as I said I only had one for a while, back in 1993.
Never liked it enough for some reason.

As for the end of PC gaming. If it happens it will be solely upon the developers/publishers. Since in terms of hardware the PC will continue to evolve there is no way it is going to end like the Home computers of the past, outdated and all. Piracy is not a concern for a variety of reasons, including that the piracy of console's games is perhaps worse in parts of the world (than the PC games)and they are still doing fine. BUT, what I do see as potential problems are 1)the new wave of games demanding you install drivers that then in term demand you uninstall other programs. 2)Digital restribution like Steam, I for the first time in many many years I thought of getting the game illegaly (HL2) simply because I do not want this freaking program to install and everything that goes with it (having to connect to the internet server to play a freaking single player game. I didn't but I still might. 3) The complete lack of respect from developers for the gamers/consumers/customers. Releasing games that NEED patches to play. NOT releasing patches for the above games. And I am not even talking about the extreme hardware conflict or anything, but games that are clearly broken and they still release them. Then when they don't sell much the claim that PC gaming is faulty or something and that they will from now on release games only for consoles. Bloody idiots. Then 4) when certain types of games like Simulators that every single sim gamer ask for variety in missions, not buggy as hell game, and dynamic or random missions, then they release a half made game, with 10 linear missions that take about 5 hours to play, people not buying these games, then the same developers saying the SIM market is niche or dead. FU!
It also reminds me of Turn Based strategy games where in the year 2005 most of them still look like they were released in 1993. Because those gamers do not want quality graphics? BS.
Anyway.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Not restribution, destribution, me bad.

Successfully updated karma reason!

So are you saying that piracy in the PC Market is not a problem and the publishers should not worry that possible more people play their games that haven't paid than have?

You asked for sides

My side of the fence is clear - I encourage copy protection that is more effective and will ensure that the majority of those playing have paid their 2 cents for the game - I want to feel reassured that I am not funding their gameplay - you may argue that starforce is not effective but you name me a starforce game (latest ver) and i'll name you a non starforce game and lets check those torrents out

My only criteria on copy protection is it must not effect the running of my pc, nor pass information about my pc to any site (without my consent) and must be possible to uninstall. Possibly more but i'm tired

Tals

Successfully updated karma reason!

Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+366

Good comments all around from a well written post.

Obviously we (Stardock) feel that copy protection is more of a hindrance than an aid, which is why TotalGaming doesn't use any uber-restrictive DRM.

As for 500MHz PCs - Al H. , don't despair on PC gaming! There are a lot of very good indie releases out there (some of which will be on TotalGaming in the near future) which will run fine on a 500MHz computer. Though, if you've been a gamer since the 70's, you must realize that upgrading is part of the way things are. Honestly, if you can afford it (or save up for it), getting a new PC would be worth the money. It doesn't have to be top-of-the-line, but so many improvements have been made in the last 3 years alone that you'll notice the difference in everything you do. I'd just recommend 1GB of RAM, since it makes things run smoother in WinXP.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Starforce Restricted game:
SuperPower 2 (DreamCatcher)

Non-Starforce Restricted game:
Swat 4 (Securom Restricted) (Sierra)

Non-CopyRestriction Bullshit game:
Galactic Civilizations

I own only 1 of the above 3 games, although I want(ed) to play all 3 of them.

The Best, and only working, RIGHTS MANAGEMENT that you can apply on your games is:
TRUST OF and RESPECT FOR your CUSTOMERS.

If people want to copy your games to their friends, they will find a way, or know someone who does. Is'nt it then better to have the ability to either SPAWN a copy (like with Diablo and Starcraft) that their friends can use, to get them hooked, see the value of the game, and then decide to purcahse it, than to lock down their system with intrusive and disrespectful copy restriction regimes that in some cases may render the entire system inoperable.

The misplaced faith in DRM lockdowns on the PC will lead to only two things:
a) More innocent fans branded as criminals with all the ripples this will send through society

More console gamers as PC owners become more and more jaded

= DRM on PC Games will result in LESS PC Games

Did I subscribe to totalgaming.net because I wanted to buy all the games? No. I subscribed because I saw it as a good idea, I had previous experiences with Stardock (From GalCiv - which I first played in a downloaded version as a demo then later purchased because it was a good game AND it did'nt cripply my system when I installed it) and I do not believe I am unique in this, because Stardock is still alive, so they must be doing something right (And I hope they do even better in the future [always better one must strive.]).

If you build it - they will come, Yes, there will be customers who are to eager to get their FIX right now than to stop and think about what kind of world they are funding with their money.

Do you want to live in a world where you are treated like trash, that you should be gratefull to get a chance play this game, that you shuld be lucky they even bothered to patch the obviously unfinished RC2 build they released as Final that you bought for 69.95$, that restricts and interfeers with your other applications and where you get absolutely NO support and told to f.off if you complain about your DRM nightmare... This is the DRM Future and I'd rather go down fighting than see it come to that. [Which is also why you should become a member of EFF].

Successfully updated karma reason!

Uhm.. the above posting was made by me... I kinda typed the wrong here and there

Successfully updated karma reason!

If I made something, the more people using it the better. Of course I would love to see everyone pay me for the product I created, but if only some of them do, then that is better than pissing off a lot of them and ensuring that they will NEVER return.

A quality product should be able to survive on its own merits in the computer market, without being loaded with DRM lockdowns that ensure that many of those purchasing the product will NEVER buy any of our future products ever again.

See, like the music industry, who for years sold us malfunctioning fake branded "cd"s loaded with lockdowns rendering both hardware and software inoperable or incompatible may have changed their tune now (their iTune...) but have they appologized to all the customers they gave the finger? No! And until that day they will not see a single $ from me.

Building a good lasting customer relationship should be one of the main goals for any publisher/developer. Primary focus is to create an excellent game, of course.

Successfully updated karma reason!