Help building, or buying a desktop » Forum Post by admiralWillyWilber

Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1813

It has always been a rule of thumb....pick the best of everything and go one step lower.....the power trade-off is far less than the cost saving.

High-end always has a premium price.

Don't believe me? My last [current] machine [2 years now] was absolute PC top-end ....and owed me all up 10K [AUD] = about 8.5k US.

Now it is still pretty darn good....but buying it now would likely be about 5k or less [though now the Level 10 case is no longer in existence/available]...

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1813

RE DIY vs ready-made....I always think DIY is best...because you can do it your way, not someone else's idea of 'your way'.

My spec [2 years old now]....

Thermaltake Level 10 VL300A9N1N Titanium Limited Edition Case [No.221]

Corsair ASX 1200I Platinum Certified 1200w Modular PSU

ASUS X99 Deluxe LGA2011v3 MotherBoard

Intel i7 5960x 3.00Ghz @3.50Ghz LGA2011v3 CPU

Noctua NH-D14 SE2011 LGA2011 CPU Cooler

32G Corsair Dominator Platinum [4x8G] 2666MHz DDR4 Ram

ASUS Strix GTX980 4GB GPU

512G Samsung XP941 M.2 PCIe x4 SSD

2 X 240G Corsair Neutron GTX SSD

1 X 3TB Western Digital Caviar Green Sata2 HD

2 X 2TB Western Digital Caviar Green Sata2 HD

Thermaltake eSports Level 10 M Hybrid Wireless/Wired Gaming Mouse

ASUS BC-12D2HTBlu-Ray/DVD-RW

ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q IPS 27" LCD Monitor 2560x1440 32bit

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit.

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ALMonty

Join Date 01/2002

+242

An SSD drive is better for gaming than a m.2 drive and add a 2T hard drive make sure it's a 7200rpm. You can save some money and go with 16gigs of ram instead of 32 unless you use graphic programs. As for the chip of course the i7 is going to be more money then say the i5. You could always go with a higher i5 then a lower i7 to save money and still get performance. Just as a side note I no nothing about AMD, I do know if you are going to build it yourself make sure you get the right board for the right chip. Intel chips don't work in a AMD boards and vice versa.

A good graphic card are expensive these days (Damn Bit Mining). You looking at least $350 for a half way decent card.

To get some kind of idea check out YouTube vids on building a computer.

Here's one I just watched start it at 4:20 but to get to the heart of it go to 16:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3z4sQgiHpp0&t=1737s

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

I heard that amd was supposed to be cheap, but when i had the above specs with the 1700 it was over 2000$.

Don't know where you got that price for an AMD Ryzen 1700 from, it's nowhere near that. I paid AU$400 for mine... around US$350 or less, depending on the exchange rate at the time.

Thing is, when asking for advice on PC building, you're going to get varied responses from Intel fans and AMD fans. I have had good results from both Intel and AMD, so I'm a fanboi of neither. Therefore, my advice to you is to get the best bang for buck within your budget... and if that means going with an AMD chip in order to get a graphics card as well, then that's what you do.

At the end of the day, though, the choices are yours to make, so don't try to go bigger or better because somebody says that's the way to go. If you're sticking to budget, AMD will save you some money to spend more on a graphics card or other parts, etc.

Anyhow, all the best with it.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Quoting starkers,

reply 4

I heard that amd was supposed to be cheap, but when i had the above specs with the 1700 it was over 2000$.

Don't know where you got that price for an AMD Ryzen 1700 from, it's nowhere near that. I paid AU$400 for mine... around US$350 or less, depending on the exchange rate at the time.

your talking about the processor im talking about the whole computer. Maybe you can recommend some sites for me the best one ive seen so faris new egg.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Thanks for the responces, but paying 8500$ for a computer even if i wanted to i dont have the money. 1050$ for a computer really breaks me. Is it feasable to spend 1 third of the budget on the processor, amd still build a decent computer.

Back to questions do amd still make their apus if they dont is it feasable to go that route to get better intigrated graphics.

My other question is it good to take a generation back in processing to get more memory. Then is it still good to take another generation back to get a graphics card for gaming.

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BlackSmokeDMax

Join Date 03/2006

+60

You can also consider going to https://pcpartpicker.com/

People upload their custom build specs along with pricing (might be US only pricing, not sure about that), with that you can see multiple setups with various pricing levels.

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ALMonty

Join Date 01/2002

+242

If you watched the video he built one for $1100. If your lucky you can find a pre-built computer that's pretty good for cheap and upgrade the parts you want.

Example (This is just an example) found this on CraigsList in my area and many more.

This one is $750.

Intel i5-6600K Processor
Asus Z170-AR Motherboard
16 GB DDR4-2400 RAM (2x 8 GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT modules)
Samsung 960 EVO 250 GB M.2 SSD
Western Digital Black Performance 1 TB 3.5" HDD
nVidia GTX 970 Turbo Founder's Edition 4 GB Graphics Card
Corsair CX600 600-watt 80 Plus Bronze Certified Power Supply
NZXT H440 Mid-Tower case
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo CPU Cooler
3x HEC Cougar CF-V12HPB 120mm Fans (front)
1x HEC Cougar CF-D14HB-W 140mm White LED Fan (rear)
2x NZXT FN 120mm Fans (top)
White LED Strips, two
Cooler Master Devastator II gaming Keyboard and Mouse combo, Blue LED
Microsoft Windows 10 Home 64 OS

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BigDogBigFeet

Join Date 12/2005

+418

Hey admiral yes the big cost factors in BIY computers today are the graphics cards and memory.

There have been significant improvements in apus AMD makes them and in January INTEL announced an 8th gen cpu with AMD vega graphics built in. From what I have read they are good for 1080P gaming and use system memory for the graphics so a 24GB - 32GB configuration would make sense for one of those.

Also, from what I have been reading pre-built computers offer price advantages. There are still some good bargains available with Lenovo.

https://www.costco.com/Dell-Inspiron-Gaming-Desktop---AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X---4GB-AMD-Graphics.product.100380468.html

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-inspiron-desktop-amd-ryzen-7-1700x-12gb-memory-amd-radeon-rx-570-128gb-solid-state-drive-1tb-hard-drive-recon-blue/6146005.p?skuId=6146005

If you compare these to a BIY price these are more cost effective.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+350

I'd be a little leery of anything Lenovo.

</TF hat>

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting Daiwa,

reply 10

I'd be a little leery of anything Lenovo.

Yeah, despite Lenovo growing in popularity here in Australia, I have read there are various issues with the brand. I would still go for the self-build option, though. Like Jafo said, you get to select what suits you, rather than have somebody else choose what they deem is right for you. Pre-builds may be cheaper initially, but so many of them have bottlenecks, and the cost of upgrading negates having paid the lower price. At least with a self build you have control over what YOU put in.... within budgetary restraints, that is.

There will be some who would say go with Intel because AMD isn't a powerful, etc, but the new AMD Ryzen series is more an acceptable and gives ample bang for the buck. The other thing is that many will say that Nvidia based graphics cards are far better than their AMD counterparts, but that isn't necessarily true anymore and the AMD/ATI equivalents are quite acceptable these days. Furthermore, your CPU and GPU updates can all be applied from the same AMD installer.

And no, I'm not an AMD fanboi.... but going with AMD may well be the difference between getting a graphics card and not. I went that way because going with an Intel equivalent meant no graphics card and less RAM.

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https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-Xtreme-GXiVR8100A-i7-8700-GeForce/dp/B0757FV6Y4/ref=sr_1_8?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1520746995&sr=1-8&refinements=p_89%3ACyberpowerPC

This PC is a good bang for your buck.................The price of RAM and graphics card means building you own is just not a financially sensible option.

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting Leo the Lion,

reply 12

https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-Xtreme-GXiVR8100A-i7-8700-GeForce/dp/B0757FV6Y4/ref=sr_1_8?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1520746995&sr=1-8&refinements=p_89%3ACyberpowerPC

This PC is a good bang for your buck.................

Not bad, but it would need a bigger SSD, me thinks. By the time the OS is installed there's not much room for much else on a 120GB drive. Otherwise it's okay.

Then there's this one for a bit less, still a 120GB SSD, but a 2TB HDD instead of a 1TB.... and more within his budget.

https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPOWERPC-BattleBox-Essential-GXi10900CPG-i5-8600K/dp/B075TMK25G/ref=pd_day0_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B075TMK25G&pd_rd_r=RRJZZ0YN9Z5QRD9K9CJ8&pd_rd_w=dJj6B&pd_rd_wg=iIPxh&psc=1&refRID=RRJZZ0YN9Z5QRD9K9CJ8

It doesn't have such a fancy case, though. However, the more than decent specs make up for it and at a lower price.

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i think those intel/amd hybrids would probably end up on anything but desktops.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Are you talking about eigth generation intel processor, or are you talking about intel chips with a amd graphics card?

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Thanks Leo the Lion I went with Intel I7 8700k 3.7 Ghz, 16gb ddr4, Nvidea gtx 1070 8 gb ram, 240 Gb ssd, and 2 terabyte Hdd. I would of went 1 terabyte on the hard disk drive, but I didn't have that option. That link helped me find it. I would of liked 16 gb more ram though. I will probably need to check if my ssd drive is m2. I will probably need to overclock it, so if you guys have advice on this I would appreciate it. How can I Turbo boost this thing. The difference between Turbo boost, and overclocking. The processor can go faster than what you it buy for; while, it is at it's slowest; untill you turbo boost it; while, overclocking mearly speeds up the clock. Thanks to everyone for helping, and wish me luck on the most expensive rig I've ever bought. I want to say boughten, but that is not a word is it? If my labtop can handle Ludicrous maps on Galactic civilizations I'm sure this can; also did I mention 6 cores! Even though your ideas weren't done that doesn't mean that didn't help my decision. Wish me luck that the meltdown doesn't destroy things! My english is autorcious.

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Jafo

Join Date 03/2001

+1813

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

My english is autorcious.

Got that bit right....

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starkers

Join Date 05/2004

+1153

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

My english is autorcious.

Bet your French is no better, either.

Anyway, here's hoping you're happy with your purchases and that it all goes well for you. As for the RAM, you could always upgrade with another 8GB stick when the cash becomes available... or even 3 more to make it 32GB. Thing is, RAM is one of the more expensive components, but your other specs are quite good and you could probably wait a wee while. However, I do advise to up your RAM to 16GB at least, just be sure to match the new to the old... eg: if what's installed is 2400mhz, get the same value.

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Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

How can I Turbo boost this thing.

Things change, but there is probably an on/off setting to enable it in the bios (it's there on mine). I'd imagine it will be enabled by default. You can't have Turbo Boost enabled if you overclock, it's neither/either/or.

6 hyperthreading cores @ 3.7 - personally I'd check to be sure the Turbo Boost is enabled and watch her rip, wouldn't tinker with the overclocking. I am a conservative though, don't want to be bothered worrying about overheating and instability, and I'm not looking for another hobby. Of course you do have that "k" series sitting there staring at you though.

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Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 15

Are you talking about eigth generation intel processor, or are you talking about intel chips with a amd graphics card?

kinda neither. i was referring to what BigDogBigFeet was talking about. kaby lake-g will have amd gpu and intel cpu in 1 package. those are for higher performance thin portable stuff without having a discrete gfx card.

there's no point having that chip in a desktop really..

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Quoting starkers,

reply 18

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

My english is autorcious.

Bet your French is no better, either.

Anyway, here's hoping you're happy with your purchases and that it all goes well for you. As for the RAM, you could always upgrade with another 8GB stick when the cash becomes available... or even 3 more to make it 32GB. Thing is, RAM is one of the more expensive components, but your other specs are quite good and you could probably wait a wee while. However, I do advise to up your RAM to 16GB at least, just be sure to match the new to the old... eg: if what's installed is 2400mhz, get the same value.

i guess i could of spelled better. I spend way to much time correcting my spelling. It is annoying. I meant 16 gigs of ram, 8 gigs of video ram. For about 500 more dollers i could of went up to 11 gigs of video ram, but 8 should be enough. I want 32 digs of regular ram.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Quoting DaveRI,

reply 19

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

How can I Turbo boost this thing.

Things change, but there is probably an on/off setting to enable it in the bios (it's there on mine). I'd imagine it will be enabled by default. You can't have Turbo Boost enabled if you overclock, it's neither/either/or.

6 hyperthreading cores @ 3.7 - personally I'd check to be sure the Turbo Boost is enabled and watch her rip, wouldn't tinker with the overclocking. I am a conservative though, don't want to be bothered worrying about overheating and instability, and I'm not looking for another hobby. Of course you do have that "k" series sitting there staring at you though.

i deleted my old order, and bought one that is 3.7 ghz like the old one, except it has a 4.7 ghz turbo boost. Now i know if it isnt set go into bios thanks. Well if i cant do both then turbo boost it is. Turbo boost is better i will take that.

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

Quoting alaknebs,

reply 20

Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 15

Are you talking about eigth generation intel processor, or are you talking about intel chips with a amd graphics card?

kinda neither. i was referring to what BigDogBigFeet was talking about. kaby lake-g will have amd gpu and intel cpu in 1 package. those are for higher performance thin portable stuff without having a discrete gfx card.

there's no point having that chip in a desktop really..

i ended up with the 8700 anyways, but wont be taking advantage of the ondoard graphics, so you are right. But if you guys didnt help i would have givven up with a sevength generation processor with 32 gigs of ram, and no onboard graphics, and a lot slower, so still thanks. Also 4, not 6 cores.

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Quoting admiralWillyWilber,

reply 16

Thanks Leo the Lion I went with Intel I7 8700k 3.7 Ghz, 16gb ddr4, Nvidea gtx 1070 8 gb ram, 240 Gb ssd, and 2 terabyte Hdd. I would of went 1 terabyte on the hard disk drive, but I didn't have that option. That link helped me find it. I would of liked 16 gb more ram though. I will probably need to check if my ssd drive is m2. I will probably need to overclock it, so if you guys have advice on this I would appreciate it. How can I Turbo boost this thing. The difference between Turbo boost, and overclocking. The processor can go faster than what you it buy for; while, it is at it's slowest; untill you turbo boost it; while, overclocking mearly speeds up the clock. Thanks to everyone for helping, and wish me luck on the most expensive rig I've ever bought. I want to say boughten, but that is not a word is it? If my labtop can handle Ludicrous maps on Galactic civilizations I'm sure this can; also did I mention 6 cores! Even though your ideas weren't done that doesn't mean that didn't help my decision. Wish me luck that the meltdown doesn't destroy things! My english is autorcious.

Niccccccce choice! Not an expert on overclocking but there are plenty of videos on YouTube. Just make sure you have good cooling. Enjoy your new toy....that is a beast!

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admiralWillyWilber

Join Date 05/2009

+99

I found i cqn either overclock, or turbo boost, not both. Im going with turbo boost. It is better for 4.7 ghz. I might be able to get 5 ghz with overclocking, but in performance that would translate to about 4.1 ghz at best where if turboost in performance that would translate to 4.7 ghz. Turbo boosting is better than overclocking.

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