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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
Join Date 04/2009
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Replace Laptop's SATA Optical Drive with 2nd HDD or SSD!

I need to do this!

September 19, 2015 12:08:19 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Guys, I thought this was cool, just wanted to share!

 

 

 

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RedneckDude
Uvah
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #1 September 19, 2015 12:29:58 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

It is cool. Having a second drive could do wonders.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
Join Date 12/2009
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Reply #2 September 19, 2015 11:15:55 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Again as I have been saying in other threads why not just use a usb external and save your optical drive.
I have Windows 7 installed on a 500gb Seagate which I run on my Windows 10 laptop and it works like a charm.

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RedneckDude
starkers
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #3 September 19, 2015 11:59:52 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I can't see the clip in the OP but it's a thought I had once with an old HP laptop... "what if I could replace this with an SSD".

I never used the optical drive so it was taking up valuable space that could have been used for a HDD or SSD.  That was back in the day when SSDs were a new thing just on the market, and I happened to have a spare Crucial 120 gig that would have done the job.

Oh well, I don't have that machine anymore, and my current one doesn't have an optical drive, but it's something for the memory banks... now I know it's possible.

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #4 September 20, 2015 12:08:15 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting JuniorCrooks,
reply 2

Again as I have been saying in other threads why not just use a usb external and save your optical drive. I have Windows 7 installed on a 500gb Seagate which I run on my Windows 10 laptop and it works like a charm.

 

I have several portable USB HDDs. But Usb is slower than internal, AND, I'm trying to use an SSD as my internal drive, for the speed benefit. I can't afford a good sized SSD for the laptop, so this may be a good idea for my needs.

The laptop in question is a brand new Dell with a 1 TB HDD, which I would put in the optical drive caddy for the extra storage. Having to lug an external drive around is a hassle to me, kinda takes away from the "portableness" of the laptop.

 

A laptop should be self contained. And I never play cds or dvds in it. I really have very little need for the optical drive. But IF I ever did, I have an external optical disc drive for that.

 

But then, I could give some thought to using the 1 TB HDD out of the lappy as an external instead, if just for storage. I don't really intend to dual boot or anything.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #5 September 20, 2015 1:24:18 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Well I can see it if you don't need or want the optical but something I need to debunk is the speed. I do not notice any speed drop using the usb hard drive. It might be a little slower booting but I am not even sure about that. When I ran the experience index the rating only dropped half a point over having windows 7 install on the machine. If you used a USB 3 or SS hard drive speed should improve. Perhaps a laptop should be self contained as you have said but look at the size of that hard drive in my photo. You can put it in a shirt pocket.

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RedneckDude
c242
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #6 September 20, 2015 1:50:44 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Have that too, 2 x 1 TB drives in the laptop (I gave up on desktop PCs and use the lap as a workstation and for business), SSD for windows in the bay. Bought a kit with the adapter and an external usb-frame for the drive. Works great.

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #7 September 20, 2015 9:50:54 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting JuniorCrooks,
reply 5

Well I can see it if you don't need or want the optical but something I need to debunk is the speed.

I didn't necessarily mean boot speed. It's a known fact that USB, even 3.0, is slower than internal stuff.

I am mostly interested in having the main drive be an SSD, for real speed, including boot time.

 

But since I can't afford more than a 120 GB SSD, I'll need a second drive for storage, and a portable may do fine for that. I'd just prefer to have everything contained inside the laptop.

 

Edit:  I meant to say that as for file transfers, USB is slower than internal drives.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #8 September 20, 2015 10:27:50 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Jim I knew you would challenge me on the speed thing and I am not saying that it is not suppose to be true but I am telling you that I do not notice a difference. I would be happy to make a youtube video showing the external in action. There is no lag, when I click on things they open immediately. Now I will say that the first time I installed Windows 7 on the same usb hard drive it was slower but I also had the hard drive full of programs and files. The second install I made a separate partition for the operating system and a few programs such as Windowblinds and use the rest of the external for storage. It seems to work just as fast as my internal even though as you say it is not suppose to. I also only paid 40 dollars for the 500gb seagate and in my case it is my only alternative because my laptop came without an optical drive. I also have an external optical if I need to play or burn a disc.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #9 September 20, 2015 11:14:27 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Jim I just made and sent you a video so you can see that I was not feeding you a bunch of BS about speed. The video quality is not the best because I made it on a cheap camera.

 

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #10 September 20, 2015 2:57:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I got the email, but it seems to be a pic, not a vid.

 

It isn't necessary, Ken. I believe you. I just wish I had the same experience. I have 2 USB 3.0 drives but I have never tried to boot an OS from one.  I have done file transfers and that is much slower than moving things about internally.

 

My post isn't about running an OS from external. It's about adding a second drive to my laptop. I am positive that I can boot, and run, an OS much faster from an internal SSD than from any internal or external HDD. No question.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #11 September 20, 2015 3:32:18 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 10

I got the email, but it seems to be a pic, not a vid.

 

It isn't necessary, Ken. I believe you. I just wish I had the same experience. I have 2 USB 3.0 drives but I have never tried to boot an OS from one.  I have done file transfers and that is much slower than moving things about internally.

 

My post isn't about running an OS from external. It's about adding a second drive to my laptop. I am positive that I can boot, and run, an OS much faster from an internal SSD than from any internal or external HDD. No question.

The link is fixed and you now have the video. I know that your post is not about an external. I was simply giving an alternative which for me makes more sense than removing the optical drive but if that is what you want to do go for it. For me file transfer speed is not an issue. I do not store the files on the windows partition and speed is only slower with large files. I copied 200gb of flac files to the external and yes it took a long time but I was still able to do other things while transferring the files. Once they are on the hard drive you are set.

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RedneckDude
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #12 September 20, 2015 9:12:01 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Unless the mobo of the lappy is a dog a usb3 external will always be slower than an internal .....

It's all about throughput. ...

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RedneckDude
Uvah
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #13 September 21, 2015 7:19:55 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

*injection of humor*

Do I dare?

Well......wouldn't be me if I didn't so...

All the itty bits on the inside don't have so far to go 'cause they're all on the inside. Stuff on the outside have to travel further, perhaps taking a few nano seconds longer to get where they got to go. After all they got to travel a longer distance while all the itty bits are right there on the inside so......

*going back to work*

 

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #14 September 21, 2015 7:40:09 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

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RedneckDude
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #15 September 21, 2015 7:56:58 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

On the specs alone, SATA3 tops out at 6Gbps, and USB3 tops out at 5Gbps. Current high-end SSD transfer rates are still around 4Gbps.

The trick is that while SATA speeds should be pretty consistent, USB3 speeds vary wildly depending on the implementation on both the motherboard and the device. Some of them are pretty poor. So they could quite easily deliver speeds well below their specs.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #16 September 21, 2015 10:17:58 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I wrote my comments based on operating speed not data transfer speed. I shared a video with Jim proving that an operating system on an external is not slow. I see no difference at all using the external verses the internal hard drive to run Windows 7. You can debate with me all you like about how things are suppose work and even show me fancy performance charts but the proof is in the pudding and I happen to have the pudding. Yes maybe data transfer is slower but for me it is still tolerable because (even though I placed my 200gb of flac files outside the Windows 7 partition) I am only using the hard drive to run Windows 7.

Here is the pudding. I am sorry for the bad quality but I made it with a cheap cannon camera and was holding it with one hand so it is a bit jerky and sound is bad. Watch it and then tell me an external is slow or even slower when it comes to running Windows 7. Again I am not arguing file transfer speed because no doubt it probably is slower.  https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3fxl3iw5518b95/MOV06954.MPG?dl=0

 

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RedneckDude
Jafo
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Reply #17 September 21, 2015 12:11:16 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Junior....by the time you debate four fifths of eff all.... (milliseconds and less) it really is meaningless.

Yes , you don't SEE a difference in speed but it is there. If the question is about speed as an absolute then an external IS slower....

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RedneckDude
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Reply #18 September 21, 2015 12:17:12 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting JuniorCrooks,
reply 16

but the proof is in the pudding and I happen to have the pudding.

 

lol...I like that....making note....  

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #19 September 21, 2015 12:39:22 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting Jafo,
reply 17

Junior....by the time you debate four fifths of eff all.... (milliseconds and less) it really is meaningless.

Yes , you don't SEE a difference in speed but it is there. If the question is about speed as an absolute then an external IS slower....

Jafo I am making my argument based on experience. If there is no perceived difference that is all I care about. I don't give a rats ass about what is technically slower or faster. The way people are talking you would think that you are at a disadvantage by using an external and that is just not true based on my observation of performance (unless transfer speed is important to you)

Not once did I make the claim that an external is faster (or even equal to for that matter) than an internal, I am saying when running Windows 7 on an external there is no perceived difference in speed. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #20 September 21, 2015 2:04:24 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

My need for a second drive is for storage, mostly. So an external would slow me down. I saw your vid, Ken, and was surprised at how snappy Win7 ran from an external. 

I had tried with a USB 3.0 flash drive windows to go and it took almost 10 minutes just to boot up.I gave up on it, actually, it never did boot.

Never tried with a portable hard drive, but I will! Thanks for the info in the email, and I do understand your point here. 

 

Kind of like the Army, perception is reality, (or am I watching too much Army Wives?)        (gotta love Catherine Bell)  

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #21 September 21, 2015 2:32:20 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

No Problem Jim. You might try an external hard drive and have a different experience than me. There are probably a lot of variables that will give a different outcome. One thing i found that made a difference is when I made a separate partition dedicated for the operating system. The first time I installed windows 7 on the external I did not do that and when I loaded a lot of files on the hard drive, running 7 was noticeably slower.

If you don't need your optical installing another internal would be the better option. I cannot do that because I have no optical drive.

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RedneckDude
RedneckDude
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Reply #22 September 21, 2015 9:05:21 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Ken, I installed Win7 on my 3.0 portable hdd and when it gets to the boot screen, it BSODs on me. Any idea why?

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #23 September 21, 2015 9:19:42 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 22

Ken, I installed Win7 on my 3.0 portable hdd and when it gets to the boot screen, it BSODs on me. Any idea why?

I might know. I will send you an email.

 

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RedneckDude
starkers
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #24 September 21, 2015 11:29:02 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting JuniorCrooks,
reply 19

Jafo I am making my argument based on experience. If there is no perceived difference that is all I care about. I don't give a rats ass about what is technically slower or faster. The way people are talking you would think that you are at a disadvantage by using an external and that is just not true based on my observation of performance (unless transfer speed is important to you)

I run 4 USB 3.0 3 TB externals from my HP all-in-one with little to no slow-down in transfer speeds.  Well if there is it's barely noticeable.... like a millisecond if that. 

Being that it only has a 120gb SSD internally, I have to use external storage for my music, skins and documents, so you can well imagine that I'm moving files quite a bit to keep my OS drive uncluttered.  I can move quite large files quite quickly to an external drive, but then I do use Teracopy rather than the native Windows utility.

As for running an OS from an external drive, I once ran Ubuntu from a WD 500 gig portable drive [USB powered] and had no issues with lag at all.  However, Windows [of any flavour] is a much heavier OS, so I imagine a powered external would be best.   I do have a portable 500 gig external to give it a try, though.

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RedneckDude
JuniorCrooks
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Reply #25 September 22, 2015 2:33:39 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I agree with what you are saying starkers. My seagate is not a powered external but I do have a couple I could try to see if there are any speed differences. Its hard to imagine that speed would improve over what I have now.

Does it make sense the way I installed windows 7 on the external by creating its own partition? I made a large partition just for the operating system 80gb but I do not store files on that partition. I use the rest of the hard drive for files. I found doing it that way made the operating system run faster than my first attempt where I just cluttered up the hard drive with the OS and my large music files.

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