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kona0197
kona0197
Join Date 02/2003
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Windows 7 and Windows Updates

October 6, 2013 10:40:21 PM from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

So I have noticed that this computer I am fixing for a friend works better if I don't install any updates. So my question is do I really need to update the machine? As long as I use a good anti virus solution shouldn't I be OK?

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kona0197
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #1 October 6, 2013 11:03:37 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Yes.

No.

MS doesn't release updates for fun.  Their intent is to resolve actual issues...

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #2 October 6, 2013 11:09:23 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Yeah. But installing updates makes this machine slower. I've tested it both ways.

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kona0197
RedneckDude
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #3 October 6, 2013 11:17:18 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Yes.

No.

But do be smart about which updates you install.

 

Example, don't let Windows Update update your graphics driver. Get that from the graphics card maker. (nVidia, ATI, etc.) And only do that if your current driver is problematic.

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kona0197
RedneckDude
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Reply #4 October 6, 2013 11:20:27 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
reply 2

Yeah. But installing updates makes this machine slower. I've tested it both ways.

A slow machine is better than a hacked machine. Security updates are called that for a reason. Not updating your PC isn't smart.

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #5 October 6, 2013 11:45:44 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Well OK. It's just funny that it is faster before updates. Why I help fix up these low end machines is beyond me. You would think a single core AMD Athlon 2.4 GHZ could handle an updated machine. Maybe it needs more RAM. It will have to wait.

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kona0197
Wizard1956
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #6 October 7, 2013 12:16:22 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
reply 5
Why I help fix up these low end machines is beyond me.
Because we can, and we all know people who just can't afford to replace aging hardware. Unfortunately, the owners often think they can be "fixed" to be as fast as new equipment that they may be comparing it to.

That ain't gonna happen.

On that note, after an OS re-install, the very FIRST thing I do is install all MS updates. They are a needed part of the OS. The last factory restore I did required 190 Windows updates afterwards. It got every one of them.

Judge the results of the repairs/upgrades with them installed, not without.

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #7 October 7, 2013 12:26:55 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Well then what could be slowing down this machine? It has the AMD Atlon LE-1620 CPU running at 2.4 GHz, 2 GB of DDR2-800, and a 160 GB hard drive. It is running Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 with all the updates. Every driver on the system is up to date. And it's so slow it can't handle playing back a song with WMP while cruising a website with IE. When you scroll the web page, the music skips. Could it be the AV program? I'm using Avast. I have everything turned off in MSCONFIG and I turned off Windows Search and Windows Defender. The only programs running at boot are Avast and Core Temp, a little program that shows the CPU temp next to the clock. Going nuts here.

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kona0197
RedneckDude
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #8 October 7, 2013 12:46:02 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Open task manager, go to processes tab, click the show all box, bottom left. How many processes running while you have IE open and a song playing?

 

Look at what is using the most CPU and RAM.

 

Even old hardware shouldn't be making the music "skip" while scrolling a web page.

 

Avast is a resource hog, BTW.

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kona0197
Wizard1956
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Reply #9 October 7, 2013 12:46:27 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
reply 7
I'm using Avast
Getting rid of that is a good place to start. I used to like Avast, and used it for years, but lately, I've dumped it on my XP rig, my Mothers Dell (Vista)and Toshiba laptop (Win 7). It seemed to be more and more of a load on the systems, plus I didn't care for Avast offering updates to other software. I want my AV to focus on itself, not other software.

Switched her to MSE as did I on XP. The speed gained was significant. Give it a try, Terry.

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #10 October 7, 2013 12:57:08 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 8
Open task manager, go to processes tab, click the show all box, bottom left. How many processes running while you have IE open and a song playing?

59 processes are running.

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 8
Look at what is using the most CPU and RAM.

IE is using the most resources, followed by iTunes. IE is using 689K of memory, iTunes is using 14K of memory, Flash is third worst at 13K.

Quoting Wizard1956,
reply 9
Switched her to MSE as did I on XP. The speed gained was significant. Give it a try, Terry.

OK. But I really don't like that I can't turn off the auto updates. I will report back with my findings.

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kona0197
RedneckDude
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Reply #11 October 7, 2013 1:04:45 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Kona, 59 processes is a lot for a single core processor. iTunes is a hog as well.

Hell, even my phone has a dual core processor.

 

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #12 October 7, 2013 1:52:34 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

After uninstalling Avast, installing MSE, and a reboot, the system is using 51 processes. All I have open is IE. IE is using 314K of memory. MsMpEng is using 47K. One of the 12 svchost.exe processes is using 83K. Explorer is using 13K.

Still slow as hell.

Malewarebytes scan comes up clean.

I would upgrade the CPU if I had the means. Maybe sometime around the holidays.

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kona0197
alaknebs
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #13 October 7, 2013 1:56:25 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

try one of them ?buntu with low resource usage?

no idea if it'll be better or worse...

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kona0197
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #14 October 7, 2013 8:48:19 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I have an 'equivalent' vintage system running 7 ult 32bit ....a P4 1.6 with 2G ram.

Feels like it takes a month to boot....

....doesn't skip the audio while surfing though...

IE 10 and Winamp.

I have no interest in Itune crap.....or Avast.

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #15 October 7, 2013 10:42:18 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting alaknebs,
reply 13
try one of them ?buntu with low resource usage?

I would but I need Windows for the majority of the programs I use and enjoy, and of course my games.

Quoting Jafo,
reply 14
IE 10 and Winamp.

I never understood your deal with Winamp. iTunes is so much easier to use.

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kona0197
DrJBHL
Join Date 04/2002
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Reply #16 October 7, 2013 11:08:28 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

MSE? You really don't want to do that. It's like trying to stop an artillery shell with wet tissues. Do the MS updates as they have updated viral definitions as well as security patches you should not do without. Slower but safer is definitely the way to go.

At least create a Guest account and browse using that, and disable javascript in your browser.

With a low end or old machine, turn off 'hardware acceleration' in your browser. Hardware acceleration for an older machine really will just make it work slower. Use the software acceleration choice.

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kona0197
RedneckDude
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Reply #17 October 7, 2013 11:43:40 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
reply 15
iTunes is so much easier to use.

And is such a resource hog.

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kona0197
GFireflyE
Join Date 05/2011
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Reply #18 October 7, 2013 11:45:58 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Jafo,
reply 1
Yes.

No.

MS doesn't release updates for fun.  Their intent is to resolve actual issues...

and to slow down your machine to give users the impression that win8 is better.

 

Last XP update I did near crippled my machine. Went from a 28 sec boot time to a 4:18 boot time. They really want me to upgrade my OS.

 

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kona0197
Philly0381
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #19 October 7, 2013 11:49:17 AM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

I'm by no means an expert but have you looked at other programs that might be running in the background?  Do you have several tabs open in IE and are they updating the info?  Sorry if you have looked at these or if I'm way off the mark. 

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kona0197
heft
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #20 October 7, 2013 2:11:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Quoting Wizard1956,
reply 9
Switched her to MSE as did I on XP. The speed gained was significant. Give it a try, Terry.

Not my experience at all. In fact precisely the reverse. MSE slows everything down on XP compared to Avast. On my Win7 machines, it's not noticeable, I think because they have better hardware. 

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #21 October 7, 2013 2:52:59 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 16
MSE? You really don't want to do that.

So I don't want MSE on my system?

Quoting DrJBHL,
reply 16
disable javascript in your browser.

How do you do that in IE and Firefox?

Quoting RedneckDude,
reply 17
And is such a resource hog.

iTunes is using 12K lately when playing a song. Far from a resource hog. I use an older version of iTunes.

Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 18
Last XP update I did near crippled my machine. Went from a 28 sec boot time to a 4:18 boot time. They really want me to upgrade my OS.

Exactly!! This machine flies when no updates are applied.

Quoting Philly0381,
reply 19
I'm by no means an expert but have you looked at other programs that might be running in the background? Do you have several tabs open in IE and are they updating the info?

No other programs running in the background except MSE. There is over 10 scvhost.exe programs running. Not sure if that's an issue. And I have four tabs open in IE, but they are not updating until I tell them to. The four tabs are Gmail, Facebook, MTBR, and Wincustomize.

 

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kona0197
DaveRI
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #22 October 7, 2013 3:15:31 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Win7, 2gig RAM, 160gig drive - Hard drive could be struggling to read the music files while it's trying to manage the dynamic swap file.

Try defragging the hard drive and see if that helps, especially if you haven't done that since installing all the updates.

Set your swap file size to a fixed size if you can on Win7.  Don't know exactly how to do that on 7 and don't know how big to tell you to make it.

It's not going to make it an i7 but it might help.

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kona0197
kona0197
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Reply #23 October 7, 2013 3:43:22 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting DaveRI,
reply 22
Try defragging the hard drive and see if that helps, especially if you haven't done that since installing all the updates.

The disk is 2 percent fragmented. I will defragment the drive, I doubt it helps.

Quoting DaveRI,
reply 22
Set your swap file size to a fixed size if you can on Win7.

Anyone know how to do that?

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kona0197
DrJBHL
Join Date 04/2002
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Reply #24 October 7, 2013 4:13:59 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

Quoting kona0197,
reply 21
So I don't want MSE on my system?

No. It's practically worthless.

Quoting kona0197,
reply 21
How do you do that in IE and Firefox?

http://www.alanwood.net/demos/enabling-javascript.html

 

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kona0197
Jafo
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #25 October 7, 2013 4:18:34 PM
from WinCustomize ForumsWinCustomize Forums

The two above who claim things slowed down are both on XP.

Irrelevant input.

The Winamp I use is v 2.9x .....because I skin it.

...and it's before it went to poo.

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