tokla

Join Date 07/2008

Best AI of all times - why, oh why?!

Hey, so I first need to say that I am really a newbe to galciv2. Really, I just completed my third game. One of the things that tempted me intitially about galciv2 was the amazing choice of different difficulty levels of the AI. However, generally I do not like games where the AI gets some sort of bonus. You know, I rather like chess computers, where the AI is confronted with the same situation and, well, 'ressources' as I am.

Now I just completed my third game on level tough, which, as I understand, includes the most advanced algorithms. I also gave the AI all of my CPU power and my system is rather not slow. But what I experienced was really disappointing. The AI acts predictable, researches slowly, aggressive in the beginning but later frightened and inferior towards me and my military power. My tech at the same time is 2 generations ahead of anything the computer can do. Basically the AI never had a chance, except for quite a quick start, I have to admit. And this is to say that it was my third game I plyed ever, so I am not even an experienced player.

Now, has anybody made similar experiences? Should I try different settings? I also read in the manual that there might be more advanced algorithms available for download (might have gotten that part wrong).

OK, that's it for now. I think I have to give the AI some economic bonus to get thrilled by this game...

tokla

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Yeah, even though the AI is supposedly superior to other games of this genre, there are areas where it could definitely use some improvement.

On Challenging (advanced algorithms used) with Max CPU, I can build like 10 fully upgraded Influence starbases near a race's borders, and they don't do anything about it. The least they could do is counteract by building influence starbases of its own, which a human player would do. Does this have anything to do with the fact that they have Close relations with me? Does the AI simply let you run them over with Influence starbases just because they are Close to you?

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Are you running the latest patch? Furthermore, at you running any of the expansions? The AI has always been improved with every patch and expansion... it's quite formidable right now in Twilight of the Arnor, though not unbeatable.

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I think I have to give the AI some economic bonus to get thrilled by this game...

I felt the same about the game. The AI is just too easy to beat. Then I started playing on "painful" setting and increasing the intelligence of all the civs higher and higher. Now they build up techs and armies faster than I can. Its lots more fun.

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what makes the AI "the best" isn't the fact that it actually plays the game well. it doesn't. at least, not as good as a mediocre 4X gamer.

what makes the AI good is that it's "unscripted." which means that instead of doing the exact same thing every time, it does the exact same 5 things.

i disagree about it being formidable, though i do agree that it's better than it has been. the AI still fails to research a number of important techs. it designs ships poorly. it can't plan an offensive strategy. it can't invade a planet effectively. it can't cope with strong influence. it doesn't develop starbases in a useful way. it develops its planets far from optimally. it still doesn't respond to mega events very well. and to make things worse, the new economy nerfs seem to have affected the AI far more than the player, essentially making every difficulty level in TA feel a step lower, with the exceptions of obscene and suicidal.

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Okay, so perhaps formiddable isn't the right word, but it's an order of magnitude better than stock DL AI.

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I have to admit that I am disappointed myself. I purchased this game because I read great reviews about it and it's supposedly amazing AI ... but I recently started playing on Suicidal ... it's really easy if you're just trying to win. It's like I have to give myself extra goals to accomplish during a game to have any challenge.

I do very much hate when a poor AI is compensated by non-player bonuses.
If only there was a satisfaction warranty

.

If Stardock would be actively working on the majors issues that still exist in v1.96, I wouldn't complain, but it's more than ridiculous.

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Quoting Starstriker1,

reply 5

Okay, so perhaps formiddable isn't the right word, but it's an order of magnitude better than stock DL AI.

I'm not too convinced of this. I've (literally) just upgraded from Dread Lords to both expansions, and if anything it seems easier. I didn't change difficulty, and I've had no trouble at all in my couple of the games I've played - whereas I was struggling with Dread Lords. I don't even know what half the new systems do - I've barely touched agents, but I'm finding it easier - that doesn't seem a smarter AI to me.

The AI always did need some bonuses to present much of a challenge - that's just par for the course for strategy games. "Tough" really isn't unless you've never played before.

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Dread Lords was great. When I first saw those insane ships I was like...yikes omg...wot am I gonna do! It was a great feeling to eventually get viable if not on par with them and then beat them through various strats. Suicide waves etc:P

This was more due to clever campaign desigint than clever AI though.

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Human players that have acquired playing tips on a website in a complex game are very difficult to defeat. There are all kinds of options that are very difficult to code in AI.

For example:

Complex defenses combining fleet tactics (see cheesy fleet tactics) and military starbases.

Devious ways of capturing resources without going to war. (like give an attack ship to an enemy right next to the starbase)

A huge buildup of transports (not too close to the enemy).

Escorted convoy of tiny constructors to make an instant base (Military/Influence)

Survey ship spams.

The fact that we can pick the rules to favor our race.

Recognition of overpowered galactic wonders. (Harmony Crystals, Nano Recorders, Eyes of the Universe, Mind Control Center, No Mercy Invasion)

And most important of all, the ability to reroll a bad starting position.

I still find the game fun and challenging at Masochistic level.

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best way to increase the difficulty 10 fold without giving the AI any actual bonuses (so at Tough):

Play with Blind Exploration on. Trust me, your game goes from easy to very difficult without any actual "change" in the numbers.

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Quoting Silverbeacher,

reply 10

best way to increase the difficulty 10 fold without giving the AI any actual bonuses (so at Tough):

Play with Blind Exploration on. Trust me, your game goes from easy to very difficult without any actual "change" in the numbers.

What if we do that already?

I haven't actually noticed that much of a difference playing with it on or off, to be honest. I suppose that means I'm doing something wrong, though.

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Yeah I usually have Blind Exploration toggled on too. It's not really a hinderance so long as I do the best I can to grab planets. By the time I'm planning an invasion, the map is pretty much already revealed.

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Personally I found Twilight fairly easy when I played on tough with a custom-made race geared towards economic, research, and morale bonuses, Super Diplomacy, and tech trading and brokering on. I traded amongst my neighbors to get all the techs that grant any bonuses, and built up a superpower pretty quickly.

I felt that I wasn't really feeling the uniqueness of the Twilight tech trees by easily benefiting from the best of them all, so I deleted my custom race, turned off tech trading and brokering, and played as a standard race without modifying it. That made the game a helluvalot harder. I play pretty peacefully, and thus my research of weaponry doesn't come so quickly. As such I've struggled to stay alive in recent games, still on tough.

At the same time, I have had to tinker with other settings. I don't like it when AIs surrender. In my most recent experiences with that setting turned on (about 6 months ago) civs surrendered way too easily. This led to an immense galaxy with 5 or 6 races instead of 10, 1 of which was suddenly extra-powerful. I didn't particularly enjoy that. I think I need to turn off the ascension victory too, because it seems to happen quicker than I'd like.

Apart from that, perhaps if I adopted a more warlike strategy the game would suddenly get easier for me. The same holds true for Civ 4 I think, except that Civ 4 with no AI bonuses is not a challenge no matter what strategy I take. Gal Civ 2 with no AI bonuses is a challenge for my more peaceful approach to the game.

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