I like the idea, and it never hurts to give a game more options. I just don't think it's a big enough issue to really get the devs attention.

The problem is this: the worth of a tech is (or, ought to be) based partially on what you can do with it. Like selling it to others.

A tech that you can't sell to others isn't worth as much as one you can.

Personally, I don't think that this shouldn't be an option; it should be a trading possibility. That is, you can trade individual techs with the understanding that they can't trade them to anyone else. That way, the AI can factor it into its idea for how much the tech is worth.

If this goes into effect... everyone might as well tick the disable tech trading box and be done with it once and for all.

How much value one puts to any techs is more about IF it can remain theirs and for how long. Eventually, the linear research pathways lead to a playfield leveling which advantages or consequences have A balancing effect. If AIs can't trade these, what would they do instead? Exclusively weak or keeping pace with everyone else to BE a challenge? Back stabbers or continual situations (and opportunities) to handle?

You don't want everyone to have your precious new techs distributed within a few turns by someone? Just, keep it. And... wait.

The *No Brokering* option would only do one thing - limit the entire span of any gaps occuring during any given game between the Human Player and its opponents; indirectly, it simply would delay the inevitable - common knowledge.

I've been and most probably always will be against such stuff for more reasons than i could spell out but i'll give one last fact to sustain my objection; research slider(s) & Ability percentages... as they both can provide a HUGE decisive edge while the No_Brokering concept nullifies it - in great lengths.

Quoted For Truth. This is basically my entire midgame strategy - trade increasing numbers of garbage techs for high-end techs, then sell the least powerful high-end techs to everyone else for massive profit, use profit to fuel war machine, then unstoppable galactic conquest.

But I do like the idea in theory... I'm sometimes worried that if I do one race a favor like, they're losing a war and I give them Uber Death Bombs, I'm afraid they're going to just trade it in return for a peace treaty, not fight the proxy war I was hoping for.

Ah, okay. That was much more clear Willy.

I disagree, however. Massive exploitative advantage? I understand that you can bolster one race with lots of advanced techs, but you can already do that with BCs and ships. And unlike BCs and warships, tech never gets used up. If you end up facing that same civilization later in the game, you've made it more difficult for yourself.

At any rate, I don't see it being any more exploitative than the current tech-trading scheme.



The AI can't handle any mechanics as well as a human. It's AI. This game would essentially be Pong if they refused to implement features that the AI couldn't utilize as well as humans.


All that aside, I still don't see why people are against more options. Surely brokering would have it's share of pros and cons, and it might not be your thing. That's cool; it's just another box you can leave unticked.

I really don't see what the problem is.

Not a problem, just a nice possible option in the future sometime, to add an "in between" to the "all or nothing" that is present.

Actually, I think it's more surprising if one somehow manages not to turn one unique tech into a huge leap in technology and money. But don't limit yourself to a tech no one else has, even giving techs others already know to a race that doesnt is lucrative as heck. Basically, within the first year one could and should have nearly every tech known in the galaxy at that time and be fairly wealthy provided you've made contact with every race. And, one normally doesn't lose ground later. This is why even on the levels where the AI has 150-200% of the human players base economy, the human can keep from lagging in tech or even be the most advanced. I literally went from 10th in tech to 1st in tech during one turn in every game (playing with Super Diplomat). That is until I turned off tech trading. Then I got trounced for half a dozen games. In fact, this last game I started is the best I've done yet but I am still losing  

...though I think I'll be able to squeeze it out.

Optional, no problem.
Metaverse proofing, that's where i get off the bandwagon.

My point is that the **Gameplay Context** would turn around a full 360 degrees against those who rely on technology growth to fuel a war machine (if conquest is the aim, btw).
The AIs, in particular, would require a thorough re-conditioning of the algorithms to figure what the new priorities should become; lead by spending away or outwit by skills. Big difference, in my mind. Remember that i play as human - though.

There are simply three major precious resources to handle in this game; Shields, Hammers, Beakers. No-brokering would alter this dynamic as such...

In ONE situation with the following spendings (or strategic pattern):
*Social=25% *Military=40% *Research =35%
...general but somehow continual figures, so to speak.

Now, comes No-Brokering in this specific way of playing, values MUST be approximately altered to:
*Social=20% *Military=30% * Research=50%
...to obtain the same pace or some average results as they compare to what a player has intuitively developed for a winning condition (be it anything, btw)

The entire focus has changed because no Ais in their right mind (in a sense, human also!) would keep a tech for tooo long unless they can have something worth MUCH more for it (as calculated through code or organ_brain logic, btw).

Limit this feature and you'd be playing an entirely different game.
And like i said previously -- just keep those techs and simply, do not trade any IF that's what your feeling is.

True, but I confess that I do not have the self-restraint.   BTW with tech brokering and thus tech trading on, my usual set-up worked like this

Mil-35
Soc-50 (soc spills into Mil when nothing is built anyway)
Tech-15

Since I could easily get wahtever tech I wanted from others, I never concentrated too much on tech. Untill of course the late game where Soc and Mil were not as vital during stretches and I would max research.

I must be misunderstanding this whole issue. I believe no tech-brokering means that you can not trade techs you got from other civs? If that is the case, then how does a human player gain an advantage through this? (No sarcasm, honest question) Since atleast for me, and I kid you not, roughly 65-70 percent of the techs I have (when tech-trade on) are from other civs. Again, untill the late game. If this is not the definition, then my posts should be disregarded.

With tech-trade off, 0% of the techs I have are from other civs. If tech-brokering was not allowed, (as AN OPTION ONLY so as not to enrage others) a middle-ground would be found, no?

I know now that I play with no-tech trading, everyone has extremely unique tech levels.   Research is so much harder for me to keep up with that I really do think HARD about every tech that I research. I currently have maxed out my Beam Techs, but seriously have not even researched Mass OR Missle Theory.    I do have good defenses for both however since several other races have specialized in those.   My shields are very weak, but the two races using beams are far from me. With this setup I have never dropped research spending to below 40%; except in very rare occurences for a max of 2 turns or so. In fact, Research for me is genrerally over 50%

Finally, it is difficult to determine the mood/attitude one uses to post on the internet so FTR I am not upset, frustrated or even in the slightest displeased with the current set-up and hopefully my posts reflect that. I just find this discussion very interesting! --but not implementing a "no-brokering option" would not stop me from paying double what I've paid in the past for the next chapter in this amazing game.

Hope you feel better soon ant.

I certainly specialize my worlds too, but with techtrade one, the only research worlds I ever needed were the ones with the uber-tiles. Certainly those worlds I concentrated on research, but maybe ~ 1 out 6 worlds were for tech for me. As I never needed to do more in the tech aspect of it since I had the AIs research for me and used my uber-diplomacy skills to acquire the techs.

With my spending setup, I could beat masochistic.

I probably could have got a little more tech from myself by going 40-20-40 early, but it was never a need for me anyway. You might be playing on suicidal or obscene and perhaps things change there. Towards the end, I would put more towards research.

I went from playing on Masochistic with Techtrade on, to just now being able to hang on crippling with it off. And, I don't do the metaverse thing, so perhaps there's points or something for score that you might be going for that I did not?

Up until Colony rush is over, i stick mine at 60% with the occasional slight drop 55% to stay econo-afloat.

BUT, this is where things get weird; i fully level the technology playfield as much as i can until i'm either forced to fight a timely war or must decide on the Ethical edgy stuff.

My opponents are always not very far behind & if they start representing a threat, i switch gears. The BCs or other techs i get in all those deals are mine to exploit.

The real challenge comes in right after the 70%(+/-5) Influence ratio is near; exactly when, all the techs i gave away are just starting to be represented into a number of other important assets (planets fully developped being just one).

I simply distribute knowledge for cash until some key-moments flips me off to conquest. Lag too much in the techno race, you loose. Guarantee.

No-Brokering your way to victory applies to the same kind of reasoning. Only the conditions change.

I like this as an option. I'll look into it.

That would be sweet. Can you please fix auto attack too while your there?

I would also love this option.

I turned tech trading off because I couldn't resist useing it to exploit the AI. No longer do I spend 90% of my time in the diplomacy window! The AI has no sense of balance of power when it comes to techs. Sure they will hold out slightly for some techs like medium ship building or race specific techs.

The value of a tech should be based on what percentage of races have it. So if I try to trade a tech to the 9th race, when 8 others already have it, that tech should be nearly worthless in trade. If I am the only one who has it, then it should be worth a fortune in trade.

In any case, until something is done about tech trading, I am just going to leave it off.