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Phaedyme
Phaedyme
Join Date 04/2003
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Annoying Allies in DA

December 25, 2007 1:57:20 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So, I've finally managed to get around to playing the campaigns. I usually just prefer sandbox play, but I decided to give it a try, and they're fun, mostly.

Just that, in the Dread Lords campaign so far, the Altairians love to build influence starbases in my territory. What is up with that? I can't ask them to stop, I can't declare war to blow them up, I can't trade enough of anything to convince them to hand them over. Should I just ignore them, just for lack of options? Why do they do this in the first place?
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Phaedyme
Phaedyme
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #1 December 25, 2007 1:57:40 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That is, playing the Dread Lords campaign in Dark Avatar.
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Phaedyme
SleekDD
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #2 December 29, 2007 4:43:27 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Alliances in GalCiv are more a 'do not invade' rather than a 'let's work together' agreement. Your ally will not keep your well-being in mind other than through the exact rules of the alliance: don't attack each other and declare war when your ally is attacked. This can lead to odd situations in which your ally may be instrumental to your defeat:

Imagine your ally attacking/being attacked by a third nation. You, as an honest and honorable leader, decide to take up the gauntlet on your ally's behalf and honor the alliance by declaring war. It's a tough fight but it looks like things are fairly balance until disaster strikes: your ally arranges a cease-fire with his enemy but conveniently forgot to include you in the deal (or even ask your opinion/warn you on pulling out of the war). Suddenly, you're left hanging in a war you didn't start and your ally is sitting on the sidelines. The thing is that now, your enemy has a far better chance at winning the war so your peace treaty will be quite costly if not impossible.

A good way to prevent such a thing from happening would be to let the ally look at his friend's well-being as well. He could ask try to broker a peace treaty include peace with yourself and see if you want peace (perhaps you are strong enough to handle the enemy alone).

Concerning starbases I can't say a lot. Perhaps he feels your influence is threatening his empire and he counters that with starbases. I do know that he can realize you are 'attacking' your ally with influence in an effort to take his planets so perhaps he considers this to be the case (whether he's right on that account or not I'll leave in the middle).
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Phaedyme
Simanticus
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #3 December 29, 2007 5:12:47 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
Consider what an Influence Starbase really is: It's a News Propaghanda Satellite that beams positive news about the planet that owns the starbase and negative news about YOU! It's a COLD WAR starbase so diplomacy is the only way to deal with whoever places one in your sector.

You simply need to out propaganda them by placing your own Influence Starbase that is more powerful. Power module upgrades can be compared to turning up the power coverage and owning more planetside media outlets to beam your propaganda to.



Fight fire with fire - until you're ready to declare war on them for attempting to influence your people. The first act of war is to destroy their influence media satellites.
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Phaedyme
Phaedyme
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #4 December 29, 2007 6:06:54 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'm sorry, I meant team AI, as in "you can't ever break this alliance" in the campaign missions. If it were allies in a sandbox game, I wouldn't really worry about it - it's going into a scenario where you're supposed to take out a third player (the Drengin) and your ally rushes to colonize all the planets and succeeds (I have to take +speed to have a chance to get the good planet in the center) and then uses them to beam propaganda at you instead of building up any kind of military to fight the Drengin.

I noticed this in the DL campaign in DA, but it does it in DL too. And then builds a hojillion constructors and nothing else while the Drengin march in with their transports to lay waste to everything. I mean, as far as I can tell, the Altarians didn't even acknowledge that the Drengin exist.

In a sandbox game, this isn't a problem. AIs break alliances and use alliances when going to war, and abuse alliances to get ahead, and that's all fine. It's the Team thing that's bugging me.
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Phaedyme
SleekDD
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Reply #5 December 29, 2007 10:31:53 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I doubt it understands the concept of teams as anything more than an unbreakable alliance which means it can't attack you. The points remain valid sadly.

I've played the campaign as well (more out of curiosity to see where the story is going to) and I've found that teammates are best viewed as enemies you can't attack. Don't expect them to consider your needs and don't expect them to understand the mission's objective. One of the strengths of GalCiv is the AI's competence in playing the game (especially compared with anything else out there), the weakness in my humble opinion is that it isn't suited to be used in scripted environments such as campaigns. In short, the AI doesn't realize it's playing a campaign mission and therefore doesn't act like it. I'm afraid they'll be obstacles for you to be overcome if you want to see the story unfold.

Good luck with the game anyway.
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Phaedyme
Phaedyme
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #6 December 29, 2007 6:38:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sure, but it would be possible for AIs to distinguish between teams and alliances. I mean, if "team" simply meant "don't build influence starbases in teammate territory," that'd be a great start. I don't know if that's the best solution, but it'd be nice if they could recognize they're in a team and behave accordingly.

Also, am I not supposed to point out where the game does frustrating things? Is the AI unassailable because it is so good in sandbox games?
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Phaedyme
SleekDD
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Reply #7 December 30, 2007 4:43:28 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I never said it's impossible for AIs to understand the concept of teams, I merely said that this particular AI apparently isn't programmed to make that distinction. What I mentioned earlier is just my personal advice on how you could proceed.

I also never claimed the AI is beyond reproach (although I do maintain it is very good). I just said it looked to me as if it was designed for sandbox games, not for campaign environments. It's a personal impression, nothing more.

By reading the questions in your first post, I had the impression you were wondering about why the AI acted the way it did and so I tried to help you. I obviously misunderstood you and managed to offend you along the way when I see your reaction so I'd like to apologize. I meant well.
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Phaedyme
Phaedyme
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Reply #8 December 30, 2007 5:43:05 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I wasn't offended, I'm irritated at the campaign game and took it out on you. I apologize for that.

And I do agree that the AI is great in sandbox games, and some of the time in the campaigns.

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