Does the Metaverse need people who don't care about scores?

Joined your empire Wheeloffire... now to take care of some unfinished business.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Joined your empire Wheeloffire... now to take care of some unfinished business.

Excellent. Congratulations, Senator.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Regardless, you are still judging the book by the cover

Only partially true. I don't think it's the end all or be all. It's a source of information that's available when other information might not be. I'm always willing to re-evaluate my opinion based on better information. I agree completely with Wheels take on it.

I am interested in knowing if a player is capable of playing one game without cheating. ... Next, I want to know what level.

I think the fact that someone wins at a high level or only plays cakewalk is a relevant qualifier to their opinion. Even so, it still isn't everything. As DethAdder pointed out, he posted games in the past and then stopped bothering with it. My (high) opinion of DethAdder is based far more on conversations we've had in various topics than his "bling". Once you "know" someone the rank means virtually nothing.

Actually, I did not intend to hold the Yor Super Ability thread up as an example of trolling.

I know what you mean and you certainly don't have to go very far to find an example. There's probably 3 such examples on the first page of recent posts at any one time. But speaking as someone who has made criticisms (I'll let those without sin be the judge of whether or not they constitute trolling), my only point is "judge not, lest ye be judged".

instead of getting upset about the developer conspiracy revealed by "open admission", just put your two cents on how any given change will work for you and hope for the best.

OK. Fine. I figure you owe me a few shots. I'm still waiting for you to say something about "Sunshine and Happiness".

Successfully updated karma reason!

Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Thanks, all, for the edification on the community politics aspects of my question.

Here's hoping for a one-word answer from Kryo to a different face of the question: do the devs benefit from every datapoint they can get in the Metaverse (larger samples=better stats analysis, if y'all are doing that sort of stuff)?

Also interested in what the dev (or stats) savvy among the rabble might think.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Once I have read a few posts by someone that is the primary determinate of the value of their opinion. But when I haven't seen a name before and I am looking to evaluate whether their idea is useful or not at the level I play, I do sometimes check out the difficulty level they are playing. I have to make choices about what strategies I would like to try out and, all things being equal, something new from a Suicidal player will get tried before something from someone playing at a lower level.

I did play GC I, but never posted to the metaverse at all. I didn't even register the game. I enjoyed the game, but it just quite never made it to my top game list. Had I posted, would my opinion have been listened too? I think so, if I had offered up something useful.

For me the Metaverse is a game life extender. Once I became confident that I would soon be able to always beat the computer on the most difficult level, I started looking for ways to keep the game interesting. These have consisted of patch adjustments, beating the game more quickly, figuring out how to manipulate the game for maximum score in a short period of time and a touch of competitive scoring. So while I am one of the higher ups points wise, and it is partically about beating out other peoples scores, it's done in the context of seeing how well I can play the game and doesn't reflect on whether someone else is a good player.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I have had my opinion of people change on here overtime. You start out first seeing a rant, or somebody really got on their nerves, but later you see their more rational side and just chalk it up to being human. There's also quite a few people on here that post often, or that you get in more direct conversations with, that gives you a sense of "knowing" them. A kind of relationship will form, whether good or bad. Depends a lot I guess, on your agreeance with the personality and views of the other person.

My (high) opinion of DethAdder is based far more on conversations we've had in various topics than his "bling"

I thank you for the kind words.

Mumblefratz and I have had some pretty good conversations about different aspects of the game , and I value his opinion quite highly. I realized pretty quickly, we had similar playing styles, since I'm a micro-manager too. Even though we have had the game about the same amount of time, he has played at the top levels, while I've been going up gradually. So his pointers have been quite helpful to me improving my game. I also see that he's rational and doesn't judge without merit.
And it's a pretty decent example of how these "relationships" form.

O.K. I've treaded the line of being off-topic long enough. Peace.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Reading this thread gave me the conviction to join the metaverse, because it is true - even if you're a great debater and have good things to say, having some nice metaverse stats can show others how well you know the game mechanics, and thus how much faith to put in some of your posts.

Anyway, having heard lots of people here talk about their strategies, I figured, what the heck, I'll try a suicidal game -that will look nice on the forums

Sure of myself, I used the human race, modified to have as good diplomacy and economy as possible, and started the game.

It was hard! I only managed to keep up with the other races (despite having some good planets) by using my diplomacy to play the AIs off against each other, and by doing lots of tech trading. Throughout the game, I was ahead technologically, but was behind at pretty much everything else. In order to win I got the last two remaining races to go into a bloody war against each other which distracted them long enough for me to grab a technological victory.

Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tech victory is kind of cheap, but I think I've learned enough about the AI in order to go for a conquest victory next game. If not next game, then the one after that. Diving in head first is definitely the best way to learn.

If it weren't for the metaverse, I would probably never have even tried playing at any of the upper difficulty levels.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I am hopeful (and eager) to see if someone from Stardock will reply to this threads question.

As a player of the game, I can only comment on the effect the MV has had on me. Several years ago I was fortunate enough to have GCI catch my eye in a store. After playing several games I thought I'd check out the "official" site. I created a character and started to submit games. I soon found a wealth of information could be found in the forums and (as others have stated in this thread) started to from "relationships" with other players/posters. After a few months I decided to join an empire and discovered that this was sort of a "sub-community" of players that welcomed me warmly and without reservation.

What I have learned from the original MV and this one is that regardless of score, playstyle, level, or number of games played, I have formed relationships with people I've never met whom I am proud to consider friends. In all of this, the MV and the empire affiliation have (as previously stated by Purge) extended the "game life" of both GCI & GCII. I played GCI from 2003 to 2006 on a nearly daily basis (FAR longer life than any game I've ever owned) and am still playing GCII. I think that from a developers perspective, and this is purely speculative, the MV is a win/win. A winner in that people will play it more often and for a longer period of time, and a winner in that any data they might hope to mine from submissions is readily available.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

I am hopeful (and eager) to see if someone from Stardock will reply to this threads question.

I doubt very much that we'll get anything out of stardock on this subject. I'd like to think that they realize that the metaverse is a benefit to the game, something that generates more interest in the game, something that keeps people interested in the game past the initial few months.

But based on Brad's comments, primarily in complaint type threads that inevitably spring up around the time new versions of the game come out, I don't think the opinion is good. My take is that metaverse players are taken as whinning cheesemongers that do nothing but complain about changes that they haven't even tried yet and are more interested in playing the metaverse than playing the game. They cry and moan about nerfing the exploits they use to build up easy points.

I think about the best we could hope for would be the begrudging admittance that the metaverse was a necessary evil. I highly doubt we'd get even that much.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

I don't think the opinion is good

So none of you old hands have seen signs that the Stardock devs get some dataset value out of posts to the Metaverse?

Successfully updated karma reason!

So none of you old hands have seen signs that the Stardock devs get some dataset value out of posts to the Metaverse?

I think that dataset value is what Mumblefratz meant by the devs considering the Metaverse a "necessary evil." Without that, it might just be considered "evil."

Successfully updated karma reason!

Without that, it might just be considered "evil."

But... this game teaches us that evil has the advantage... *looks around confused*

Successfully updated karma reason!

So none of you old hands have seen signs that the Stardock devs get some dataset value out of posts to the Metaverse?

Yes I believe they do.

I don't think they can determine very many specifics, such as speed of ships that Brad alluded to that they could. I figure at most they can see that x number of planets were taken over in y number of turns which could be caused by many reasons. Then they read the posts and every one was talking about speed so a decision was made.

I think they made the decision to nerf Neutral tile upgrades based on the number of people that we playing neutral and the info that was being posted in the threads.

They can also probably see the individual scores that make up a Meta score and initial settings of a players galaxy. From that determine number of planets, resources, population, tax income, etc. Brad said it was difficult to get the information but not impossible.

With what they get from looking at profiles of us players, reading the posts, and data from posting they can probably gather quite a bit of info.

Successfully updated karma reason!

. I figure at most they can see that x number of planets were taken over in y number of turns which could be caused by many reasons.

I dunno... there's a lotta information inside of the debug files. I think it's quite possible that they know the info on every ship you build, since he also alluded to it "being a pain to figure out." I took that as there is a mass of information inside these files, and so much that it's difficult to search through.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Yes. I'm pretty sure they know the ships that have been created. But they can easily tell the speed of an empires demise simply by the population curve which is something I'm sure they have ready access to. If a races pop went from normal growth to zero in one turn, it's pretty clear what happened.

[edit] On second thought maybe it's not so clear. Maybe a bunch of planets were taken by influence or diplomacy. Could that be differentiated from just being conquered? Perhaps, but it's not necessarily so obvious. [/edit]

Successfully updated karma reason!

I have seen where they set games with the cheat flag after the fact, saying they could tell players playing with unusually high racial bonuses. The extent of their reach into the metaverse data will probably never be known. I'm sure they won't be volunteering everything they can gather. I actually think it helps the game overall. It's one more source of information they have to try to improve the game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

You know another point about the metaverse is that if it didn't exist as an official part of the game administered by Stardock, it would still probably exist in some form of fan based underground format. In that context, there would be virtually no control over this and I'm sure true cheating would run rampant. This in turn would have a very negative effect on the game and could even ruin it.

At least with it under Stardock control the most egregious offenses can be avoided. Hopefully, this is another reason for Stardock to keep it around as a "necessary evil".

As an aside, Brad had mentioned in one thread or another something to the effect that he would never do another game with a metaverse.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Thanks for the dataset answers. Given the need for intervention from support to get myself set up and the fact that DA doesn't do Metaverse yet, I'll likely put off signing up until next year. Still hoping to get close to finished with my 1A Huge map before 1B is posted.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Now, I'll be the first to admit that a tech victory is kind of cheap, but I think I've learned enough about the AI in order to go for a conquest victory next game. If not next game, then the one after that. Diving in head first is definitely the best way to learn.

Yay, I just finished my first suicidal conquest victory

You know another point about the metaverse is that if it didn't exist as an official part of the game administered by Stardock, it would still probably exist in some form of fan based underground format. In that context, there would be virtually no control over this and I'm sure true cheating would run rampant. This in turn would have a very negative effect on the game and could even ruin it.

Very true.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Thats BS. I can't take these constant radical changes to the game anymore. It's just too irritating. Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

Yep, that was me. I haven't even looked at that thread for fear of the blazing inferno directed at me. I'm sorry I made that post. But, in my defense, I was really pissed about them removing the morale bonus for stock exchanges. It was uncalled for and there was no reason I could see for it. Combine that with the waffling over the bonus for morale buildings and farm buildings and it was too much for my little kitty mind.

I did in fact quit playing the game for a while. But I got over it and I've been playing again. In any case, it's moot now because DA is coming out soon and the game will be something totally new.

That's one post I wish I could take back.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

Yep, that was me. I haven't even looked at that thread for fear of the blazing inferno directed at me. I'm sorry I made that post.

In my mind you've nothing to apologize for. I don't see where there was anything offensive or hurtful about your statement. To me it was simply an honest statement of your feelings about the game at the time.

I'm also glad you've returned. There have been other's that have left the game and haven't returned, in my opinion, their absence lessens this community. Then there are the folks that would say good riddance, in my opinion, its their presence that lessens this community.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I post to the Metaverse, but not for any paticular reason. I realy don't care about scores, and milking a game for points, is unbearable imo. I like the building and expanding part of the game, not the built already and now to mop it up. I played ONE massive galaxy and it nearly ruined the game for me. After a point, the map does get tedious so I found the setting that I extract the most fun out of (large/occ/com/com 9 random).

I don't care about the empire part either. I use my own empire, but I don't try and recruit. Could care less. Although, in being honest, it would be cool to see my one man band make the top lists. lol

So why do I post to the metaverse? For the exact reason the OP brought up. If SD can look at my submits and make a better game down the road, more power to them.

It also helps me to stay out of the mods and play the game the way it was intended. I quit playing Civ4 because I couldn't keep from monkeying with the XML. It gives me a sort of accountability with myself. Hearing Brad won't do another MV type game is saddening, but I can certainly understand considering all the grief thrown out there because of it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

@CraigHB, for what it's worth, I'm sorry I made you relive that, and I'm glad you're back in the game. Please don't take it personally; I was looking for posts that had a certain tone to make a point, and I just harvested some examples at random.

To make it up to you, I will give you some of the finest ships in my fleet!

(CraigHB notices fifty turns later that he owns a Fighter with 1 gun, no armor, and 2 movement points, stuck on the far side of Drengin space...)

Successfully updated karma reason!

Mumblefratz

Join Date 07/2006

+139

@CraigHB, for what it's worth, I'm sorry I made you relive that, and I'm glad you're back in the game. Please don't take it personally; I was looking for posts that had a certain tone to make a point, and I just harvested some examples at random

It was very clear that there was no ill intent on your part.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Since I play mostly sandbox games and I don't install any mods, I figured why not post the games in the Metaverse? It's not that I really care for the scores and stuff (although the medals do look nice

) but it's a nice way to keep a record of the games you play since there isn't any offline 'hall of fame'feature like in the Civilization series, where I only play offline because multiplayer is too much of a hussle for me. Too bad the AI in Civ4 sucks compared to GalCiv2.

Successfully updated karma reason!