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Mumblefratz
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Discrepancy between PQ and actual buildable tiles when neutral

August 17, 2006 11:54:32 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I've noticed a discrepancy between a planets PQ and the actual number of buildable tiles when playing neutral. I've never seen this on planets that I've colonized myself, only on planets that I've conquered. Typically, I seem to be about 25% short (PQ12 has only 9 tiles, PQ16 has 12) but this isn't a hard and fast ratio. At first I thought that perhaps when you conquered a planet you didn't get the PQ benefit of a colonization event that may have occurred, but I notice this on (I'm guessing) about half of my conquered planets. This seems far too high to be caused by PQ colonization events.

I've only played 5 games so far (all on v1.2) and on one of them I was evil (didn't see this effect then) so my sample size is rather small.

Has anyone else seen this?
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Mumblefratz
e-stab
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #1 August 17, 2006 12:00:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes, I noticed the same thing occasionally.
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Mumblefratz
Pantoffel
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #2 August 17, 2006 12:03:52 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I have it too. Surely noticable on the larger PQ. Playing 1.3 beta2.
First time I play neutral.
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Mumblefratz
CornhuskerMac
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #3 August 17, 2006 12:28:38 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah, and I wonder if it might have something to do with the race you're playing. I didn't notice that problem playing terrans (though maybe I was just not looking back then), but I do see it sometimes as custom.
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Mumblefratz
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #4 August 17, 2006 12:55:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Race is certainly a possibility. I’ve played as the Drath in all four of my neutral games.

Another theory I had was that this might happen because the race that colonized the planet had a higher racial PQ ability than yours. I had thought that the racial PQ ability only applied to your homeworld, but perhaps it doesn't. I think I'll try selecting PQ ability as a test. Although it's seems expensive (10% = 3 points, 20% = 8 points), if you really get a PQ boost on all planets than it could be worth it. Though none of this explains why this appears to happen only when neutral.

I guess the real question is, is this a bug that might get fixed, or, is this an undocumented feature that we'll simply have to live with? I assume someone from Stardock will be around shortly to make a call on this.

If it is something we'll have to live with, the question I have is what is the planets max pop based on, the displayed PQ or the actual number of tiles?
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Mumblefratz
LoneWolf0912
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #5 August 17, 2006 1:07:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Max pop has always been based on the number of farms you have, regardless of size.
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Mumblefratz
V1m
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #6 August 17, 2006 1:15:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah, you don't get the PQ bonus tiles on conquered planets. Bit of a shame.
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Mumblefratz
CornhuskerMac
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Reply #7 August 17, 2006 1:24:15 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
But I think you do on colonized planets, which is very nice.
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Mumblefratz
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #8 August 17, 2006 1:26:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes and No. Parapharsed from https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Population. Specifically for v1.1, don't know if this has changed in v1.2 and later.

"Formula for Calculating Maximum Population
Maximum Population (in billions) = 0.02 * ( ( PQ + 1 ) ^ 3 )

PQ = Planet Quality

This figure may only reflect maximum growth-achievable population.
Yes, you can still reach your food limit by transporting people from other worlds. It really doesn't make much sense.

Rough Numbers
Maximum Population per Planet quality in billions:

PQ 4 = 2.5 b.
PQ 5 = 4.3 b.
PQ 6 = 6.9 b.
PQ 7 = 10.2 b.
PQ 8 = 14.6 b.
PQ 9 = 20.0 b.
PQ 10 = 26.6 b.
PQ 11 = 34.6 b.
PQ 12 = 43.9 b.
PQ 13 = 54.9 b.
PQ 14 = 67.5 b.
PQ 15 = 81.9 b.
PQ 16 = 98.3 b.
PQ 17+ = 100 b.
"
[edit]
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Mumblefratz
Mumblefratz
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Reply #9 August 17, 2006 2:00:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
@v1m: are you saying you don't get the tiles that should be automatically terraformed from being neutral if you conquer the planet?

This seems funny. I know I've conquered planets that have had soil improvement or other terraforming projects active which (I think) I've simply let complete and the tile they were on then becomes available. But to say that you don't get the neutral auto terraformed tiles on conquered planets nor can you terraform to get them means you're giving up probablly 25% of all the tiles on all the planets that you don't colonize yourself. If you're playing 9 AI's (which I am) that probably means you're giving up 25% of 90% of all planets. This seems like a lot.

[edit]
Actually, if this is the case, you would get the tiles that the AI had soil/habitat improved and/or terraformed prior to you're conquering the planet. This probably gets it into the 10% of total tiles in the galaxy that's about in line with my empirical observations. Still giving up 10% of all tiles in the galaxy seems to be a pretty high price.
[edit]

The questions I asked still remain. Is this a bug that could/should get fixed and if not what PQ applies to the max pop achievable by growth?
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Mumblefratz
Heroine4Life
Join Date 10/2004
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Reply #10 August 17, 2006 3:47:06 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Max pop has always been based on the number of farms you have, regardless of size.


wrong

its dependent directly on farms and pq of planet.
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Mumblefratz
CraigHB
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #11 August 17, 2006 5:51:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I play "good" alignment and have only noticed this problem when I build the Orbital Tile Destroyer...err, Orbital Terraformer. So, I don't build it anymore. Hope they fix this in 1.3

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Mumblefratz
Kblore
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #12 August 17, 2006 7:38:05 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I play custom race all the time and noticed this problem in update 1.2. I'm playing 1.3beta 2a now and this has been fixed -- for me at least.
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Mumblefratz
random50
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #13 August 18, 2006 10:46:15 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Max pop has always been based on the number of farms you have, regardless of size.





wrong

its dependent directly on farms and pq of planet.


Actually, the original poster was right. You can put 20B people on a class 4 if you want...but you'll have to ship most of them there. PQ affects the point at which the population will stop growing naturally.
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Mumblefratz
dandrader
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #14 August 18, 2006 11:07:17 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well,

That sticky thread saved my day

I use a Win2k pt_BR (Brazilian portuguese). So it's not just "Win2k and Euroupe" but "Win2k and non US English systems"

Thanks.

----

PS: Sorry, this post was meant to be in "STICKY: Win2K and Europe". I don't know how it ended up here and now I can't remove it. Sorry
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Mumblefratz
V1m
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #15 August 18, 2006 11:32:51 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
@v1m: are you saying you don't get the tiles that should be automatically terraformed from being neutral if you conquer the planet?

This seems funny. I know I've conquered planets that have had soil improvement or other terraforming projects active which (I think) I've simply let complete and the tile they were on then becomes available. But to say that you don't get the neutral auto terraformed tiles on conquered planets nor can you terraform to get them means you're giving up probablly 25% of all the tiles on all the planets that you don't colonize yourself. If you're playing 9 AI's (which I am) that probably means you're giving up 25% of 90% of all planets. This seems like a lot.


This is exactly what happens. In a way it's not too much of a problem for me, because the game doesn't usually last long once I enter the conquest phase. But it's a bit annoying to see the "headline" PQ figure at 20, but only have 16 tiles to use. If conquered planets aren't meant to get the neutrality bonus, then that's fine, but the discrepency should be fixed IMO
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Mumblefratz
Mumblefratz
Join Date 07/2006
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Reply #16 August 18, 2006 11:57:11 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Thanks V1m. I guess this simply has to be factored in as part of the cost of being neutral. It also kind of makes sense that, as CraigHB mentioned, that the Orbital Terraformer behaves in the same manner. Perhaps, as Kblore has suggested, this gets fixed in v1.3 beta 2a and beyond.

As I see it, the primary advantage of neutrality is the NLC. But this tends to lean me more toward evil which has the early beam 12 weapon and the all powerfull civilization wide 100% economic bonus that the Mind Control Center bug generates.

Though there's another (pretty much expired) thread related to this, I really have to take my hat off to those who consistently play good, it seems to be such a disadvantage.
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