SephIock

Join Date 06/2005

Are military starbases worth it on "tough" difficulty?

Some SAY they are, but how can they be?

Can it really be cost efficient to make multiple constructors for every single star system you want to attack? Likewise, can it really be worth it to make multiple constructors for every single star system you want to defend?|

Why not just make ships instead? That way, you won't end up with things that are either:

A: Useless when and if you go on the attack (in the case of defensive starbases)

or

B: Useless once you move on to the next enemy star system.

Can someone who has had experience with these things please explain their value to me? Cuz right now I place them in the same category as the planet quality racial bonus

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Ok, if you guys arent going to respond, can you at least vote "yes" in the poll? Even if you are a soulless, evil mulitplayer hater.

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I find them pretty useful in key locations. You lurk a fleet around one. The AI attacks and looses. If you do this near their best production planet(s)/your key planet(s) then it's not like it's even exploiting the AI:)

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The thing is, though, if you simply use the time you spent making those constructors to make warships instead, you can create a fleet which will both deter your opponent from attacking in the first place, and allow you to strike at your enemies.

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whismerhill

Join Date 03/2006

+19

Ok, if you guys arent going to respond, can you at least vote "yes" in the poll? Even if you are a soulless, evil mulitplayer hater.

that's just wrong
I'll tell you why :
imagine that everyone is nice with you & do what you said
what will happen ? :
stardock will make a multiplayer extension & may lose money because sales may not follow ...
so that's just wrong or you wish stardock to lose money ?

I think military starbases are worth it if you have some kind of virtual choke point:
-mostly in small maps
-with rare habitable planets you may have a planet that is critical to your empire and very exposed (next to the ennemy)
so you might want to protect it with a military starbase
-if you add overthat that your ennemy has more powerful ships & your own ships+logistic don't stand a single chance against them
-in that case instead of building many more fleets that will be wiped out in a a few turns you might want to upgrade their firepower with those military starbases

my own strategy with starbases is to have at least a single world churning out constructors each turn (but I play galaxies with more than a few habitable planets)

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I used military bases often, both in defense and in offence until recently. 1.1 beta 4 really castrated them as it seems (at least in masochist level) everyone gains dam high tech in weapons and defence and those small bonuses just doo ot seem to make the vital differnce they used to.

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Military starbases are the most worthwhile where you situate a lot of your ships. So if youve got (like i have at the moment) a military starbase covering 5 planets (all being +8 or higher and 2 are over 20) then that starbase bolsters my fleets defending and intercepting enemy fleets (so i can get my attack bonus in 1st sometimes) and it is of critical importance in close battles. As long as you prevent it from being destroyed, its a rediculously good investment, ships will be built and lost, but the starbase will provide the bonuses turn after turn.

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Misin: How on earth did you get a setup like that?

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I find good Military starbases absolutely essential in some games. I just finished a game where I played the Drengin and started in a bad position - with the exception of a Precursor mine on my home planet. (You've gotta love those Precursor mines...)

The Arceans were way ahead of me and eventually teamed up with the Altarans (moderate to weak) to beat up on me. Fortunately, I had a military starbase built that covered four worlds - their two home worlds and my two home worlds.

Despite the fact that they were flinging Xanthium Hull Plated, Phasered Heavy Fighters at my weeny Stinger III, Enhanced Deflector Heavy Fighters (and later Cruisers), I held my own and eventually beat them back - taking their two worlds.

Military starbases are great for development during the inter-war years. You don't want to build a huge fleet because of the upkeep costs, but a starbase in the right place can effectively act like stored, cost-free military power - particularly if placed in a good location that will see consistent action.

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Misin: How on earth did you get a setup like that?

There were two solar systems almost overlapping because the were so close, think i had it on loose clusters and abundant stars on my huge universe. That and a bit of soil enhancement and some such for the high quality planets.

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It depends. In endgame it can often take me 3 turns or 4 turns to produce my warships but I can produce at least 1 constructor a turn even from my slowest production planets. SO if I decide to build them non-stop within 4 turns I often have enough to fully upgrade the assists and some of the other bonus's.

Of course I only send them in right before the attack, to forestall it being killed of course.

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The bonuses military starbases provide are jaw-dropping, since they're applied per ship. Even if you just drop two constructors, one to build the starbase and one to build a single weapon bonus, each fleet's firepower is going to go up three to seven points. That's way more powerful than building another two warships, which are probabally going to be more expensive than two constructors anyway.

Of course, how valuable that is is going to depend on the tactical situation, but if you're at all worried about how a battle is going to turn out, it's worth the effort.

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I've never built a mil SB, never needed to, never seen the point.

You are probably better off maxing out on econ SBs around your core production worlds letting you build your fleets that much faster.

I've had some troubles with AI mil SBs, but usually only early-mid game, before you have ships with enough weaponry to knock out SBs (even fully loaded) in one (or sometimes two if you're unlucky) combat rounds.

I could see people using them for defense if you are playing for a nonaggressive win (tech or maybe culture), but the best defense is definately a good offense in GC2.

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Yeah, I can see them being most useful with swarms of smaller ships, since the bonus is applied per ship. Too bad they took out the speed boosting starbase upgrades from galciv1... fighters are waaaaay too slow for an effective offense.

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They're wonderful things, military starbases. One of my games when I was being crushed as I had a large empire, too many planets, too little population, and not enough money, I though I was going down. I built a HUGE network of overlapping military starbases (cost a lot, but nowhere near as much as a single warship), and won the game because even my mediocre outdated ships were more powerful than anything the AI could toss at me. It bought me enough time for my population to recover, money to start flowing in, and I wiped out the galaxy. Good times.

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I remember in one of my first games the Torians declared war on my pretty early. I was the second biggest civ out there but they still outnumbered me 4:1, so I built a military Starbase at a strategic pathway through which they would send their attackers at me. That way, 5 little fighters (uograded Star Furys) held of at least two dozen Torian fleets of lerger, more advanced ships. The Starbase improved my fighters shields and weapons a lot. While they kept the Torians at bay, I built up a large fleet in my empire, which would strike at Toria itself and conquer their empire from within (worked great).

Now in my games I usually place military starbases as staging grounds for my invasion. First I park a couple of fighters next to my enemys border (or even within), then I send in the construction fleet to build up a mil. SB, which I then use to protect my transports with only some little fighters, while my big ships go ahead an crush the enemy.

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My last few games i have used Mil Starbases purely for defence. I check the foriegn stats to see the general mood of the galaxy before deciding on them but it just so happens that my last 3 games were violent and war torn affairs. Bliss.

I tend to only release new ship designs when I have some tech I deem worthy of the redesign i.e. if I can double (triple?) the damage output, or have a significant new def (or need a different def type altogether). So my first ship designs sit by the starbases and hold the line while being otherwise hopelessy outdated on their own.

At some point (usually my second design) a ship will have a mediocre Att (like 4) and a point in a Def. Because this design can take advantage of the Def Assist modules, this will become the workhorse until my tech becomes sufficient to build a fleet capable of realistically holding its own outside my borders or the enemy turns up with something badass. If the enemy adapts to the fleets I send in then I can fall back to the Mil starbases and regroup.

With a fleet of 4 ships supported by Mil Starbase modules plus 1 or 2 spare ships in a planets orbit nearby I dont (usually) have to worry about much early on. Except for appearing to be a soft target, but sometimes that is also desirable...

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I don't use starbases for attack per se but I do use them to protect key systems. No matter how good I think I might be on the attack, there's usually a fleet or three that gets by and goes for my stuff. I usually have some reserve fleets (though sometimes they arent top of the line ) and this really helps mount a decent counter-attack.

It's too time consuming to use for attack and that's how I use them. I prioritize the enemy's if there is any to quickly level the playing field on attack. I can't say I protect every single system but I do prioritize since one takes a LONG ass time to develop. There's also beefing up your resource bases too. An enemy will definitely try if fleets get past you.

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My opinion is that starbases are important in the early game, when you have fleets of small, relatively week ships. In these cases a starbase offers a huge benefit. A fleet of 1-0-0/1-0-0 ships can easily turn into a fleet of 2-0-0/4-1-1 with a couple modules. I believe it also helps your military rating so you appear less weak.

When you get up to ships like 60-0-0/9-4-4, the starbase bonus is much less important.

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I find them more useful early in the game when ship attack / defense is low. Turning a fleet of tiny ships each with 1 attack and 1 defense into ships with 3 attack and 4 defense (the 2 +1 laser modules which are available early and the +1 to all defense module) lets you turn a fleet of cheap, junky ships into something that can take out pretty much anything the computer can throw at you for quite some time.

EDIT: whoops, looks like you barely beat me on that one, justkevin.

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Military starbases r great for the ultimate defense, any ships entering there sphere of influence r just space debris. Build military starbases, appear weak military wise, they declare war, turn there ships/fleets into space debris, gain xp, gain hps. When u have some high hps ships, upgrade to your latest, flashist weapons and can they stop your ships fleets, no. I always station a fleet with a militay starbase, enemy ships have to destroy that fleet before they can have a go at the starbase..... Never seen it happen yet and i play on the high AI levels

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Personally, I think starbases should be proactively able to attack any enemy ship within their sensor range. It seems the only practical use for them since otherwise their only purpose is a bonus to friendly passing ships. I'm playing a massive universe all the way up the tech tree and the cost of upgrading starbases with 1hp constructors outweighs their usefulness. Why not have them make ranged attacks and hey, mobilize them REALLY, after a certain level you should fit engines on them and make them mobile like any other ship. A Deathstar for battle purposes. Besides, when enemy ships cut off your trade routes you can simply pack up and leave to a friendly star system. So much more useful!

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My mistake, speed boosting upgrades are still in there.

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