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Evil Muppet
Evil Muppet
Join Date 03/2006
+2

Tech Trading Idea

April 18, 2006 6:37:47 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I was just thinking about the new patch that's in development (waiting for the patch feels worse than waiting for Xmas!), and especially about the forthcoming "No Tech Trading" option.

Although I can understand the reasons for including it, it seems to have some serious downsides too. Some of the diplomatic races will suffer for it, and negotiations will be less important.

Why not add a further option, that restricts tech trading to allies only? It would prevent tech trading in the early game, give diplomatic races a goal to aim for, and it will make alliances more important than they already are, for scientific AND militaristic reasons.

My only other concern is that with reduced tech trading, it will be harder to keep people's opinions of you high enough to enter into an Alliance in the first place
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Evil Muppet
Marcathonas
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #1 April 18, 2006 8:10:48 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Actually, the AI was tweaked specifically for this. I've played without tech trading and I do very badly, but the other races work just fine. And the AI is a lot more selective about techs, but allies only is the same as no tech trading. Alliances are expensive, and often need tech trading to get there.

Sorry, but I doubt your idea will happen. It's just too awkward.
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Evil Muppet
Metaphase
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #2 April 18, 2006 8:17:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'd say that would be a fine change, but there are tons of suggested solutions to this tech trading problem. I probably haven't even read them all yet so I'll hold off on giving my endorsement.

No tech giving early on would indeed hurt the diplomatic strategy, but I don't think it makes it that hard. The first time I tried diplomacy on Tough level I accidentally had tech trading still off from my previous conquest only game and I still won easily. I had a strong economy and gifted BC to make friends and with the spin control center and all my diplomatic bonuses, I never fired a shot. Even 2 incidents occured that sparked a war with friends didn't slow me down, they accepted peace right away. I actually thought it was far too easy so I avoided all alliances which I could have made mid game and just made everyone war with each other and watched the losers surrender to my hall of empathy. Even the Yor and Drengin were banging at my door at 2 in the morning asking for sanctuary...
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Evil Muppet
Metaphase
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #3 April 18, 2006 8:23:40 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Personally I think it is far too easy with tech trading on, which is why I play with it off most of the time. As long as you stay on top of what discoveries are made it is not only an instant trip to being at least on par with the technological leaders, but even without focusing on diplomacy you end up with quite a bit of extra BC after trading the tech around to everyone else. I'd call it an exploit if it weren't an intended function of the game. Just my opinion though.
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Evil Muppet
Evil Muppet
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 April 18, 2006 9:55:31 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Fine points, and I'll admit that I rarely trade techs anyway. Who knows, it might give me the incentive to try some espionage.
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Evil Muppet
Mordachai
Join Date 12/2002
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Reply #5 April 18, 2006 10:19:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Personally, I like the fact that in GC2 you can trade tech in a fairly resonable manner with the AIs.

In too many games, that feature is turned off just because some folks want it to be tougher - bully for them, and certainly I'd have that as an option. But in my experience, the AI is a fairly good bargainer, not a push-over at all. One might make it slightly more selective about what its willing to trade, or at what prices, but in general I find that I have to have a "incredible skill at diplomacy" in order to get a 1:1 trade with them, and anything less forces me to do a disadvantageous trade (where I'm the disadvantaged).

But whether you think the current system is good or bad, I would at least like to retain that choice for myself. Overall, koodos to the developers for what is in general an excellent AI in most respects. That the AI will get better at war is a good thing to hope for, but overall a very good piece of programming. : D
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Evil Muppet
JohnOBX
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #6 April 19, 2006 3:07:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Personally, I like the fact that in GC2 you can trade tech in a fairly resonable manner with the AIs.

In too many games, that feature is turned off just because some folks want it to be tougher - bully for them, and certainly I'd have that as an option. But in my experience, the AI is a fairly good bargainer, not a push-over at all. One might make it slightly more selective about what its willing to trade, or at what prices, but in general I find that I have to have a "incredible skill at diplomacy" in order to get a 1:1 trade with them, and anything less forces me to do a disadvantageous trade (where I'm the disadvantaged).

But whether you think the current system is good or bad, I would at least like to retain that choice for myself. Overall, koodos to the developers for what is in general an excellent AI in most respects. That the AI will get better at war is a good thing to hope for, but overall a very good piece of programming. : D



Yes, I like the Tech trading the way it is. I get a jump on techs and then use them to barter for new ones I don't have or for a quick cash/influence infusion when I need it. If you don't say ahead of the diplomatic game, you get creamed in the deals.

The one thing I don't like is all the fussing around you have to do to figure out the money-for-tech trade level. Since the AI has an exact amount in mind they'll pay for a tech, you should be able to enter a trade and see what they want for or what they will pay for a particular item. Maybe this could be some sort of "barter-tech" that you can research.
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Evil Muppet
MarshallONeil
Join Date 03/2006
+7
Reply #7 April 19, 2006 3:39:05 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
"Maybe this could be some sort of "barter-tech" that you can research." I like this idea. It would be even better if they worked the phrase "Who run Barter Town?" into the description. I would gladly sacrifice a few game-weeks of research to save time fiddling with those sliders and arrows every time.

My own little gripe about tech trading is that it turns minor races into your personal ATMs. The other major races don't seem to trade much with them, I suppose because they don't do much of their own research. This means you can visit them every few turns and sell them whatever you want. They'll buy anything (another aspect of the same problem, imo) for credits or influence. What use do the Apocalypse Squirrels have for Advanced Logistics? It's not like they can colonize worlds, build massive fleets, and rule the galaxy. There should be some limits to what AI races, especially minors, will buy from you or from each other.
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Evil Muppet
Claymation
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #8 April 19, 2006 5:05:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I like trading techs just the way it is. I've had bright opponents say, "You know, I'd love to trade you the game-winning death missle, but my pesky senate won't let me do that. Even for good friends like you. It sucks, but my hands are tied." Also, it's a good (if minor) advantage you can have over other major races with The Korx. Trade with them and they'll love you, apparently because they're too treacherous for the other major races to bother with. They're almost always tech poor, but cash-rich.
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