I'm going to have to side with AW Trespasser here. There is no reason to remove both his score and his medals if they really are going to be reworking the score. Yes he admitted he exploited to get that score, but its also true that it would be nigh impossible to get the other top scores without exploiting in the same way. The rest of you complaining that hes a "spineless ass" both grow up and learn to read.

A couple things put me on AW's side..

First, he said the game took over a week to play (or at least I read it in another thread). Even if he was utilizing an exploit, that's a lot of time to invest in a game, and I don't see the benefit in deleting a score that was so heavily invested.

Second, if the score is being redone, I'm not sure why nature can't take its course. Brad said he would delete it days ago, and he finally did. I have no problems with people doing what they say they will , but I can see the benefit of leaving it there as a baseline to measure the effectiveness of the patch.

But, my real question in this debate is 'how can anyone win by pressing 5 thousand times?' What is wrong that nothing occurs during that period? I think I read that AW would check for events every couple of hours or so.. No war, No growth.. Just pressing enter.. I keep thinking that something's wrong with the game that it waited until year 210 to CTD (out of its own boredom -> is that a spiritual victory, having more patience than the computer? .

Anyway AW, Brad said he would delete your game record and he did.. He also said he'd update the scoring, and we know he will.. No need to get upset that these events didn't happen on the same day, or that your inflaming tone inflamed people.. Regardless, I thank you for documenting something that's been annoying me for a month or so...

hey lev.... havent seen you on the forums before, at least nothing i read....

look, we understand that you are showing that there was a problem, but the metaverse is to show of skill, not to show off that you can press the turn button until you go blind. we understand that everybody can do that..... yet, nobody else has. because everybody knows that its unethical just to keep a game running like that to rack up points. and games with the influence victory off is not a cheese game, because i could pick all my begining points to be influence points and win a game in a few years, turning it off just says its a lot more fun to wipe the floor with everyone where as its nowhere near as fun to just have everyone say, well we like you, game over.

I am glad you got your score deleated.

You exploited a bug.
And you claim you did not cheat. Knowingly exploiting a bug is cheating, i hate to brake it to you.
You invested a week. Do it again but this time dont exploit the bug you seem to have to much time on your hands as it is.

*wishing you got more then just your score deleated

When SD **finally** finishes the MV scoring I hope/expect they will delete ALL scores back to zero to give everyone a fair shake.

No, they'll recalculate the existing submitted scores with the new algorithm - so everyone will be playing on a level playing field.

but the metaverse is to show of skill, not to show off that you can press the turn button until you go blind. we understand that everybody can do that

My personal opinion is that *no one* should be able to do nothing for two weeks and still win.. (even if they set themselves in a good position..) At some point, the AI should have done something, like run needMoreSpace() and tried to conquer the weakest planet in range (say, at year 50..) Diplomacy would have to reflect increasing tensions, but needMoreResources() IS one of the oldest reasons for war on this lowly planet.. (even if it doesn't lead to the brightest of wars..)

Once the AI was at war with the all-powerful empire, it would have promply surrendered (of course - given the quitter mentality of the AI - another debate on other threads...).. But the surrender would have ended the game around day 3, or something..

But, as for the score neutralization, I'm all about seeing all-powerful super scores of 4 mil being reduced to, 100? 200?.. There's something oddly satisfying in watching the mighty oak be torn from its roots, shredded into bits not worthy of paper pulp and left to feed only the smallest woodland insects.. I just don't get that satisfaction with a plain-old neutralization.. But, that may just be me .

Peace Phoenix is right. Had he managed to do this with the exploit mentioned here, (the "Multiple reload=multiple bonuses" cheese) then everyone can say "That's a cheat", and that would be fair. As is, he exploited a legitimate loophole in the AI, and IMO needs congratulations for being able to sit it out that long. I think the problem is no-one was expected to have that much patience. If he didn't have the patience, and used a macro to auto-turn, yes that's cheating. But AFAIK he sat at the computer and kept clicking turn.

The difference is glaring when you define cheat and exploit: A cheat is playing with a different set of rules (which he didn't) and an exploit is using those rules in an unexpected way, to go with a weakness in the system (which he did). The entire point of being a gamer at higher levels is to exploit the AI in one way or another. (Look, the Terrans haven't built up quick enough, I'll attack now while they've only got their feet in the galactic door...). While he did it in an unusual, and probably mind numbing way, it really is still legit. He may be allowed to re-submit when the new system is in place (Frogboy said his score would have been about 33,000) if they have deleted it, as opposed to mark it as "cheater". The issue was probably that using one heavily exploited game, he got the #1 medal, and denied others who play the game more legitimately from EVER getting it.

And finally, AW, I really would check to see if you got a RSI from doing that. Your finger must ache like hell.

Problem detected... pressing end turn increases score. Infinitely.
Emails sent to stardock.... no reply.
Posts on forum detail problem, with much discussion, no developers reply.
Demonstration made on small galaxy, taking first place by above method for all small galaxy games.... no one noticed.
Finaly, as a last resort, I submit the most preposterous game imaginable, all the while telling everyone this is a problem.
Oh, NOW you notice.

Your right, the score probably should be deleted.

But there are thousands of you playing this game, and very few of you can say you did something to insure that this game would be made better. All I asked in return was a lousy former first place medal.
I see now i should have just made my score slightly higher than next best, and kept my mouth shut, if I were in it for just the medal. But I am not in this for "just" the medal. I did it to get the scoring system fixed, and wanting a cookie for doing it is just human nature, like it or lump it.


So stone me, whip me, and call my mother names, but I still win. Were it not for me, the problem would still be ignored. I may not get my former first place medal, but I get the satisfaction of knowing that even the people who flamed me here are going to be playing a better game because of me. Nothing can take that away, not even deleting that silly score. Not even calling me an exploiter.

"Exploit: Using something in a way it was not designed to be used for personal gain or to harm others. "
Now I suppose by some twisted logic that since I want recognition for finaly getting stardock to fix the main reason competetive players ignore the metaverse, I am an exploiter. Thats some mind bending logic tho.