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Nanite10877
Join Date 03/2006
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AI does cheat on tough difficulty

April 5, 2006 3:45:29 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The AI had a morale ability of 60% on a tiny map I just played. It wasnt very far into the game, no way it had morale techs researched yet, and I had anomalies set to very few, so it didnt get 10 morale boosting anomalies. It probably took morale +20%, and it was populists, but that still only gives you +40%, and morale is the best stat to increase, bar none right now. If I could put all 10 points into morale, I would. Plus it seemed to get way more ability picks than 10. So what is the level if I want the AI to have no actual advantages but all its algorithms in place?
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Nanite10877
Safari Joe
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #1 April 5, 2006 4:06:39 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
tough is the right level, and the only advantage the AI gets in higher difficulty levels is an economy bonus not a morale bonus......so your most likely mistaken.
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Nanite10877
Quaternus
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #2 April 5, 2006 4:16:24 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The AI only cheats after Tough. This has been explained at great length on the forums.
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Nanite10877
Marcathonas
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #3 April 5, 2006 4:18:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You're completely and utterly wrong. You get many more bonuses that what it seems through tiles, inbuilt bonuses that can't be picked/unpicked (like Yor negative diplomacy) some techs give an empire wide morale bonus, and of course a single morale starbase could do that with ease.

The Ai on tough DOES NOT CHEAT! sheesh.
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Nanite10877
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #4 April 5, 2006 5:11:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Which player were you playing against? Remember, some races get different advantages. The Drengin, for instance, have a morale boost too.
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Nanite10877
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #5 April 5, 2006 6:38:44 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Example: Drengin get 20%. Another 20% from picks. 20% from party and you have 60% morale ability on turn 1.

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Nanite10877
Civ3Fanatic
Join Date 08/2005
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Reply #6 April 5, 2006 7:11:21 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
i have no moral bounuses on my custom race but i have a moral ability of 90 casue i have so much moral buildings low takes and moral reasources and moral trade goods

try to consider everything before u yell ITS CHEATING!!! ok?
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Nanite10877
ignuss
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #7 April 6, 2006 12:38:20 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Example: Drengin get 20%. Another 20% from picks. 20% from party and you have 60% morale ability on turn 1.

But the player can't do that. So if the AI does that it's kind of cheating or playing by different rules.
You can't choose so that you get more then 20% (25% for Torian) morale from abilities for any of the default races.
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Nanite10877
MojoJojoUK
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Reply #8 April 6, 2006 1:37:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Sorry didn't read the post properly.
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Nanite10877
Spearthrower
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #9 April 6, 2006 1:58:17 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
But the player can't do that. So if the AI does that it's kind of cheating or playing by different rules.
You can't choose so that you get more then 20% (25% for Torian) morale from abilities for any of the default races.


Yes you can.
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Nanite10877
Nanite10877
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Reply #10 April 6, 2006 2:50:18 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
OK I was playing vs the Altarians, I just started a new game as the altarians, same race picks etc, and it only had 40% bonus. I know the AI didnt have a morale starbase, there was only one morale resource and I had it. I started another game and the altarians had 40% morale BUT they were war party that time, so again 20% bonus to morale. If it's a racial bonus, it should be available to the player, if not, the AI cheats, right? It's getting an advantage the player doesn't have.
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Nanite10877
e-stab
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #11 April 6, 2006 3:30:25 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes you can.

How that? You can NOT choose more than +20% as a racial ability, it simply is the maximum (as of 1.1-Beta-2A). Together with +20% from the populists that makes +40%.

These people have a point: If the AI is allowed to choose a combination of abilities the player can't choose, then that is an AI cheat. It's not a big one IMO, and most likely an oversight, but an unfair advantage anyway.
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Nanite10877
Quitch
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #12 April 6, 2006 6:58:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Uh, but the AI *isn't* picking them (well, not the initial 20% anyway), it's part of the Drengin, and you can play the Drengin!!
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Nanite10877
ignuss
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #13 April 6, 2006 7:20:38 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes you can.

No, you can't

Seriously, test it yourself.
If you choose Drengin with +20 morale and choose the alignment tab, you will note that the +20 morale bonus is already chosen. Thus it's impossible to have +40 morale without government-bonus as Drengin while it seems that the computer can choose +20 morale a second time.

Uh, but the AI *isn't* picking them (well, not the initial 20% anyway), it's part of the Drengin, and you can play the Drengin!!

Actually, the AI do pick extra abilities which is impossible for a player to do because then they will lose a lot of inherent bonuses which the AI most surely don't lose.


A better system would IMO be to have the abilities tab cleared for the default races and then you could add whatever you want with your defaul-race-points without losing any abilities.

I wonder why this hasn't been fixed a long time ago. This buggy race creation was the first thing I noticed upon downloading the game and it left quite a bad initial impression. It took me approx. a hour to start a Yor game with all abilities working while having changed the government. It took a while to figure out that I had to delete the .raceconfig-files to reset the race and then changing the government and hoping that I would keep all my bonuses.
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Nanite10877
e-stab
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Reply #14 April 6, 2006 7:54:00 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Actually, the AI do pick extra abilities which is impossible for a player to do because then they will lose a lot of inherent bonuses which the AI most surely don't lose.

Yes, that's exactly the point: There's a difference between the AI and the player which shouldn't be there. If it was there on purpose, I'd call it an AI cheat.
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Nanite10877
Peace Phoenix
Join Date 01/2004
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Reply #15 April 6, 2006 8:02:57 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
If it was there on purpose, I'd call it an AI cheat.

best guess: left over from GC1, where the AI did pick its abilities. And the AI working wasn't altrered to reflect the corresponding interface behavior/ design choice for human player.
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Nanite10877
Frogboy
Join Date 03/2001
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Reply #16 April 6, 2006 8:20:54 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Again: Guys, the Drengin NATIVELY get a 20% morale boost. It's part of their race just like population growth is part of the Torians.

20% from their native ability. 20% from picks. 20% from party would give you 60% on the FIRST turn.

On top of that, Xeno Communications: +5%.  Universal Translator +5%. Diplomatic Relations +10%.

By turn 10, a Drengin could have 80% morale.

IF the player plays as the Drengin, they get those bonuses too. Each race has its own native advantages. The Terran Alliance get a diplomacy ability (so do players when they play them). The Custom race gets a +25% soldiering bonus AND a bonus to trade and research.

Some of you are confusing the ability picks with the native ability of the race.

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Nanite10877
ignuss
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #17 April 6, 2006 8:42:23 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
IF the player plays as the Drengin, they get those bonuses too.

No, they don't, or at least it isn't shown. I tested right now to be sure.
I get +20 by default. When I choose the abilities tab, I can't choose +20 morale because it's already chosen. Besides, it would cost 3 points and I have only got 1. And if I change anything I lose my Weapons +20 and my Soldiering +25.

If I begin a game not having changed anything (since I can't improve my morale), with populists as government and take a look at my abilities, it say's +40 morale.
Now if I look at the planet it says that my native morale ability is +47%. I don't remember how morale is calculated so if this is from 40 morale + native invisible 20% bonus, then the abilities tab in civilization manager shows wrong because it says +40. Hence, confusion about cheating. Specially if it's shown to be +60 when you look at an AI Drengin.

On top of that, Xeno Communications: +5%. Universal Translator +5%. Diplomatic Relations +10%.

That's diplomacy, not morale.
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Nanite10877
ignuss
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Reply #18 April 6, 2006 8:56:17 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I tested resetting the Drengins, removing every bonus except logistics.
Now it showed that I had +20 morale so it seems that it's a bug that don't list this native bonus on a default Drengin.
Weirdly enough, it said on my homeplanet that I +25% morale bonus from native ability, shouldn't it be slightly lower than 20%.

And I would like to add that it would be nice to see these unchangable native bonuses upon choosing a race.
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Nanite10877
ignuss
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Reply #19 April 6, 2006 9:08:08 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I also did the same test with Torians. No bonuses whatsoever except logistics. No population growth bonus is shown in the abilities tab after having started the game.
No wonder that the Torians have so much more population than the Thalan if they get a pop.growth-bonus that is invisible in-game in addition to their 20% pop.growth & 25% morale from race picks.
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Nanite10877
Frogboy
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Reply #20 April 6, 2006 9:10:31 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
This looks more like an issue of a display problem than anything else. There were a bunch of threads complaining about the Torians having too much of an advantage because of their population growth so I assumed it must be displayed since they do indeed have that advantage.
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Nanite10877
e-stab
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Reply #21 April 6, 2006 9:11:02 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
ignuss is right - either these "native" abilities aren't shown in the stats, or they simply aren't there for the player.

I just tried again and I didn't find a way to play a +60% morale Drengin.
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Nanite10877
Nanite10877
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Reply #22 April 7, 2006 1:59:17 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well if it's a display problem, then there is still another problem. The altarians in my game were DISPLAYING a +60% morale ability, something that is impossible. I suspect you may be right frogboy that it's a display problem, because I picked the drengin just now for kicks, and when I went to pick abilities I hit reset, and it showed I had +25% to morale without any abilities being picked, but then I took +20% morale and it showed only a +20% morale bonus.... So either way, the AI is getting some kind of unfair advantage. Sounds like it's an inadvertant cheat however (ie a bug), but I'd definately look into this asap....
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Nanite10877
JamieKirby
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Reply #23 April 7, 2006 3:45:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Theres a thing called modding.

I personally add a new ability to each one (as long as it doesn't exceed 5, otherwise it doesn't work)

ofcourse this makes it cheating, so you can't add it to Metaverse....cause it would be so lame. lol
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NobleXime
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Reply #24 April 8, 2006 12:49:50 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If you clear the abilities tab and just play as the Drengin, you get absolutely NO bonus to morale. This is beta 1.1 so eh, it might be fixed but I don't feel like updating. I did however have a +7% to logistics ability...
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Nanite10877
Zippyriver
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Reply #25 April 11, 2006 5:58:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah, I think core racial abilities need to be shown. It would eliminate the confusion.

So you lose all "hidden" bonuses when playing a custom race, yet get the same amount of racial points to spend on non-hidden abilities? Why gyp custom race users
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