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fsk5809
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Yor are Overpowered!

March 16, 2006 8:58:14 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Someone else posted this, and I agree. The Yor's +25 miniturization ability is incredibly powerful, especially on a large/gigantic galaxy. Based only on the starting techs, I was able to design a +5 speed colony ship. And the extra cost only made it cost 1 extra turn to build! That's ridiculous.
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fsk5809
Glostakarov
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #1 March 16, 2006 9:23:10 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Its possible to build a +4 speed colony ship using the starting techs for most other races, the exception being those that start without improved hyperdrive. A 4 speed colony is not an extra turn to build for many of them (depending on other racial bonuses). So I don't really see a problem with the Yor bonus based on starting colony ships.
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Lore Weaver
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #2 March 16, 2006 9:31:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Constructors. You can design a much faster constructor for less build time. That one parsec is huge when racing towards a resource node.
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Pyrion
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #3 March 16, 2006 9:31:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What do you expect? They're machines. Of course they'll be able to fit more on their ships simply because they don't need to waste space on organic dependencies such as life support.
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HuggyMonster
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #4 March 16, 2006 9:39:55 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
the problem with Yor is not miniturization, its the fact they have too many bonus's, minturazation alone is VERY powerfull its the equiverlent of enhanced minturization right from the start, couple that with 100% loyalty, all there other bonus's

and on top of that the best starting tech in the game (all the plantary improvement xeno tech AND ion drive)


i wouldnt mind so much about the minturization bonus if they was so overpowered in all other respect, my prob is even if you did remove minturization entirely they still be THE strongest starting race
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Francis Deschenes
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 March 16, 2006 9:42:01 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So why they need life support to travel longer distances. The Yor are machines but if you read their description you see they need to "eat".
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Spearthrower
Join Date 01/2006
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Reply #6 March 16, 2006 9:51:38 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Ssssshhhh!!! *looks around nervously and sweeps the thread under a rug*

Don't say this or someone might..... *shudders*.... balance them!!!!

I love Yor - I love playing with them and I love playing against them.... they are powerful but excellent characters and usually one of the few races who can give me a run for my money!
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Pnakotus
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 March 16, 2006 9:52:36 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The Yor are almost always the first to go down in my games, so I don't care. There might be an issue with them getting miniturisation, purely because you're often best off modifying the Yor into a custom race instead of going pure custom.
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Morberis
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #8 March 16, 2006 10:13:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yeah I've noticed that the Yor are usually on par with other races, or get wiped early. Though if they do last longer they end up quite powerful. Though the same can be said of almost all of the militant races.
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Foxdrake73
Join Date 08/2005
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Reply #9 March 16, 2006 10:15:57 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
If they are too powerful with bonuses....GIVE THEM A DEFICET....such as really very very very LOW diplomacy...make it so that BOTH the AI won't trade with the HUMAN player and AI won't trade with AI YOR.

2 cents
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Josh_88
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #10 March 16, 2006 10:22:49 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
so? deal with it. its part of the game. you have to adjust and adapt and change your strategy. if you dont want to do that, well then use it to your advantage and always play as them, or never put them in your games.
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WolvenOne
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #11 March 16, 2006 10:25:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Nerf the Yor! And while you're at it, nerf Terror Stars! And while you're at that, nerf my shadow priest! He's been having too much fun ganking squirrels on Vizzard III.
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papermuscles
Join Date 11/2004
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Reply #12 March 16, 2006 10:51:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
the problem with Yor is not miniturization, its the fact they have too many bonus's, minturazation alone is VERY powerfull its the equiverlent of enhanced minturization right from the start, couple that with 100% loyalty, all there other bonus's


well, i dunno about you, but i would never let another race get influence around my planets to begin with, so the loyalty is nice, but it can be quite unnecessary at times.
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Ryan Vincent
Join Date 09/2004
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Reply #13 March 16, 2006 10:53:54 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
nerf Terror Stars


A. We dont have terror stars in GCII

B. Even if we did, The best you could do is downgrade them to Death Star.

--

Nerf the Yor


The Yor are balanced IMHO.

Heck, Why dont you just whine about the Altarians huge chances of finding Ranger ships every 60 turns?

--

nerf my shadow priest! He's been having too much fun ganking squirrels on Vizzard III.


Seriously, Thats taking it too far.
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monkspider
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #14 March 16, 2006 11:05:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You're correct, I started the other thread about the Yor and it seems puzzling that Stardock would make the Yor clearly so much stronger. I had asked Stardock if there were any "under the hood" effects that balanced things out, but none were ever clearly established...
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monkspider
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #15 March 16, 2006 11:08:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
By the way, I didn't even realize the Yor started out with the most techs too until now. That's simply beyond belief! There HAS to be something that balances things out. I can't believe Stardock would commit such an egregious error in game balance.
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Wargoat
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #16 March 16, 2006 11:16:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Oh god.. the nerf crowd has finally started playing, Want to have the same specials as the yor? specialize your species towards it or just dont play with them as is so often said on the forums for WoW, Its fine learn to play.
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Jim Frazer
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #17 March 16, 2006 11:17:47 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Unless this becomes a multiplayer game, I really don't see the need for racial balance. You have the option to choose which races you play against (well, not even a choice. You need to select what you're playing against).

Short of people playing hordes-o-Yor to run up high Metaverse scores, I don't see a problem with some races being stronger or weaker than others.
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Lucian Gyiira
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Reply #18 March 16, 2006 11:32:03 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I dunno, I thought the Iconians started with the most tech not the Yor?
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Supreme Shogun
Join Date 11/2005
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Reply #19 March 16, 2006 11:33:14 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Oh geez. Learn how to play. I can own the Yor so easy. Their bonuses are given to them and they are unique. It's not hard to overcome your starting position. It's the blasted torians who look like they read the infinite city sprawl articles out of Civ 3, colonizing the galaxy like cockroaches. Anyways.

not to mention another blasted whiner, whining that something is bugged/broken when its actually intended/designed that way.
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Kenes
Join Date 01/2003
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Reply #20 March 17, 2006 12:02:33 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I agree, the Torians are a bigger pain in the but the the Yor, For the record, my last game was on painfull. It seems that I can easily crush the Yor, but the Iconians, and the Dreign are the most likly people to gain great influence in my games. They are always dukin it out, and if they weaken each other, the Torians just gobble them up. That is of course if i'm still fidiling around with the Terrains. I usually leave out the Alterians because...well, the evil races always beat them up and I like to see the evil powers attack each other so I can gobble them up. But here I am giving away some strategy so I stop my tangent...Stupid Torians...
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Alfonse
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #21 March 17, 2006 12:13:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
specialize your species towards it or just dont play with them as is so often said on the forums for WoW, Its fine learn to play.


That's the thing: you can't create a custom race that is the equivalent of the Yor. You can't replicate the Yor's logistics bonus or their miniturization bonus.

My problem with the Yor is that they're not playing by the same rules as the rest of the races. It isn't that they're necessarily better or worse than everyone else. Logistics and miniturization should either be a part of what a custom race can be or the Yor shouldn't have those bonuses.
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monkspider
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #22 March 17, 2006 12:21:54 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I think many of the posters here miss the point, or misunderstand the situation. There are only two statistics, logistics and miniturization, that are inherent to a civ, and can't be customized. The rest are interchangeable and are just dependent on what you want to put your points in. The Yor have both the highest logistics, and by far, the highest miniturization of any civ. That in itself would give the Yor an unfair advantage, but unbeliveably, they start off with the most techs of any civ as well!

This creates a situation where if you want to get the highest scores possible on the metaverse, there is no compelling reason not to play the Yor. And indeed, a majority of the players in the top ten play the Yor.

Now, all other things being equal, isn't it better to have races that are balanced rather than not? While it's true that it may not be as critical to balance the civs since there is no multi-player currently. But I can't understand why someone would actually *oppose* having a well-balanced roster of civs.
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Ortus Phoenix
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Reply #23 March 17, 2006 12:38:21 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
They have "under-the-hood" modifiers to reduce their diplomatic sucess as far as I'm aware.
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PGHammer
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Reply #24 March 17, 2006 2:27:39 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I don't find the Yor overpowered; in fact, I'm playing AS the Yor (first game). Besides, the Yor are SUPPOSED to be more like the Empire (technologically superior at the cost of weak diplomacy and a generally evil outlook on their neighbors). I'm actually playing a more neutral-to-good Yor (a *democracy* headed toward a Federation once I have researched it), but I'm currently engaged in a pissing contest with the Thalan Empire and their proxies (the Drengin and Terran Empires surrendered to me, and I hadn't even *touched* one of their ships, planets, or anything else of either empire), and, other than colonies I captured from the Thalans and the allies thereof, I have been engaging in very few *battles*. I've actually gained more colonies via secession (the colony revolts from the founding empire and joins the Yor without ANY prompting) than via conquest. I am using a TBF (Tough But Fair) diplomatic strategy: if you don't mess with me or my colonies, you're safe; otherwise, I'll pound you into sand. As opposed to conquering everybody, I'm looking to create a Yor Hegemony (which is a rather tough task). I also tend to build colonies with strong defenses (and rebuild any colony I gain to the same standard as the *founding colonies*; that COULD be why I gain colonies by secession). I'm researching HyperWarp II (in fact, most of my research has been multi-use as opposed to being purely military in nature).
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TheLoneKnight
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #25 March 17, 2006 3:53:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
The only thing that ticks me off about the Yor is that they have custom options that I can't use for my custom race.

I don't care whether they've got +25 miniaturization or 100% loyalty (though I'll admit both can be a real pain in the butt), but I DO want equality when I'm designing my race. I should be able to create any race in the game with the custom race creator - but I find myself limited.

I can't give my races weaknesses, nor can I give them some of the awesome bonuses I see from the Yor and other main races in the game. What if I want to create my own mechanical race with its own quirks and traits? Maybe I want it to have ridiculous miniaturization but horrible military production, or maybe I want to create a race that easily overwhelm all opponents in ship quality and soldiering, but their economy is in such a ruinous state that they can scarcely support more than a handful of ships.

I saw this feature used quite effectively in Space Empires IV, so why am I missing it in GalCiv2 (that they are seperate companies not withstanding - it should be a standard feature of any race customization game)?
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