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Join Date 11/2004

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What just happened to my economy

This is fairly early on in the game. Ok so I was making a pretty good +40bc a turn. Well I built a Manufaturing capital on one of my planets, and now im loosing 50bc a turn. This doesn't make any sence at all. If the increased manufacuring causes my spending to go up, this is completely stupid. I mean whats the point of building it if im going to have to decrease spending in EVERYTHING just to get me back to a positive economy. If what I said is the case, that really needs to be changed.
seriously, I build it to have much more MP, but then have to not only decresw spenging in military, but social and research as well. Now that plantet has the same industrial out put as before, but now social and research spending on my plantes is down by about 20%......I guess I get to start a new game.

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building the capital increases your max capacity- you still have to spend to make the capacity. You have to build your economy and your manufacturing simultaneously. Inceasing your manufacturing means you can make stuff faster, not that you can make more stuff for the same price. The increase in manufacturing is useful if you're trying to build Wonders/ships.

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that doens't make sence at all. so whats the point of building anything as far as social buildings like factories or reaserch centers if you have to pay for what they give you.
-That manufacturing capital has a maintance cost of about 100bc a turn because of this, WHY. whats the point of having a maintanance cost on anything if you have to PAY for what they give you. Isn't that maintance enough.
--Whats the point of building any social project except for ones that increase your economy. The others you pretty much have to pay out the butt just for minor increases. Im sorry but this game really suxxxxxs now.

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You could try building only economy buildings and then buy stuff from other races or quick produce. But using your own factories will probably be slightly more efficient.

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The game works and appears to be well balanced. It is just a matter of deciding when to build improvements. Just because you can build something does not mean you should. I have no problem supporting all sorts of improvements mid-game, but you have to work to get your economy humming.

Tony

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Im really in shock that you have to pay for this stuff
--This means that you can't have high industry of reasarch without having a die-hard economy. This gives a huge advantage to those that have a economic bonus, not to mention it means there is only one way of playing the game. No offence, but I don't think I can play this game anymore.

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and this is surprising to you? the fact that your economy has to support your industry and centers of learning?

I mean, *WHY* is it surprising to you?

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What?

I NEVER play with an economy bonus, and I've never had a problem with cramming a world with Industry.

It stands to reason, just like real life you have to pay to maintain factories and pay moreto use them. Just use the sliders to chose how much to pour into manufacturing.

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Its surprising cause they fail to mention this anywere
-it is also surprising becuase it limits the way you play the game to only one way. An economic jugernaught.
--NO im not surpried that the economy has to support the buildings, but I thought that was the point of buildings having a MAINTENANCE COST

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Ok, so esencially a basic factory that adds like +10mp has an effective maintenance cost of 10bc. I dought a single factory costs 10 BILLION CREDICS to support EVERY TURN. Wow, and for only a measlly 10 extra mp...awsome.

this means that in one year it cost 520 billion credits to run a single factory. That should be one bad ass factory.

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All of this, like any other aspect of the game, is supposed to require developing a sense of balance and priority, and pursuing goals with patience. That's part of what makes it a good strategy game. A player may decide not to make "economy" his #1 priority, but he dare not completely *ignore* economy. I have found the balance of the game just fine.

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See, you just found the reason why I always play the federalists with +50% economy. Money can be hard to come by when you build too many factories like me.

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In most games industry and economy was separated, civilization for example. I didn't realise factories worked the way they do immedietly either. I disagree that you are forced into one mode of play tough. In my first game i took +50% production and concenctrated on having very high industry. It was very succesful and I won vs intelligent. In my newer games I tried doing the economy juggernaught instead and find that it's hard to spend all the money as efficiently.

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Buying things is inefficient compared to building things. You can make more money, but if the other guy can produce ships faster then you can buy- you could be in for some trouble. Also, note the economy buildings provide a lower % bonus, then the other types of buildings. You need to have a good mix of both.

Usually, for me, what works is to have a couple of worlds dedicated to manufacturing, a couple of research, and the rest churning out the money. I tend to use the Korx which helps, but even then, those manufacturing worlds are vital to getting warfleets ready for the next war. Being able to produce your current-gen battlecruiser or oversized transport in 12 terms instead of 42, when it costs 4500bc to rush, is a bonus. One of my favorite buildships is a transport with 5 advanced troop modules- you don't need to wreck planets if you have one of those to invade them, and you don't need much in the way of logistics. You do have to protect them though.

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I play with a +50% economy too. Can't ever have too much $.

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This is easy to explain. Lets assume ship X costs 100bc.
- On a given planet you have 10mp, so ship X will be ready in 10 turns, costing 10bc per turn.
- Then you finish building the MC.
- You now have 20mp, so your ship will be ready in 5 turns, costing 20bc per turn.
Since the bonus also applies to social production, the same formula applies to those projects.

The basic fact here is that you have to pay full price for everything you build. If something costs 100bc and you can build it in one turn, you will be charged 100bc on that turn. If the same thing can be built in 10 turns it will cost you 10bc per turn for a total of 100bc. This applies to ships and planetary improvements.

The MC doesn't magically make things any cheaper... there are no free rides here kiddo.

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After my initial shock, I see the point you all are trying to make. I was thinking the wrong way about this whole thing. Thanks for putting up with my noob hood. I was tinking way to much civ, but now that understand exactly how this works I retake all my nasty remarks

P.s. Not matter what I say, I could never stop playing this game.

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Also, social production eats money whether it's being used or not. If you've got your economy set up well, it won't be a big deal. However, if you want to minimize the money being dumped into a nonproducing planet, you can focus on military spending (click on the military production output box at the top of the planet screen; click again to stop focusing).

Unused military production doesn't eat money like social production does. Focusing on military production will reduce the social and research output of the planet, but as long as you're not producing anything military on the planet it will reduce the amount of money you're spending on the planet.

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Also, social production eats money whether it's being used or not. If you've got your economy set up well, it won't be a big deal. However, if you want to minimize the money being dumped into a nonproducing planet, you can focus on military spending (click on the military production output box at the top of the planet screen; click again to stop focusing).

Ummm.... now *that* I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around.

WHY?

I get the idea of the increased manufacturing speed not reducing the material cost of whatever you're building. If a starship would have taken 10 turns to build, and now takes 5, the materials still have to be paid for, and outward cash flow rate doubles to make up for the increased production speed.

But if you aren't bloody building anything, what are you paying for???

Maintenance should be it, but you don't need materials, so why are you paying for them? Why is this different for military than social? What the heck is the reasoning behind this?!?!

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That particular question has been asked many times. I think I've heard it has something to do with balancing the economy, though the game manual does specifically say that if you're not building anything you aren't spending money.

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Your social and military production is not supposed to require money if it is building nothing (according to the manual). However, only military production seems to be acting in this manner. Social production is still drawing the full amount from your treasury even if you're not building any planetary improvements.

I havn't found a difinitive response from a developer saying 'its a bug', or 'its a design decision' yet, but I havn't really been looking that hard.

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