How copy protection creates pirates

There is an argument that says Stardock releases games with loads of bugs and therefore you, as a consumer, are forced to buy a legitimate copy in order to get your game working.

Even if that were true, I'd rather buy Stardock than have my dvd drive break because of distributors choosing to use less than reputable protection.

I will never put my hardware at risk. Does that mean that gamers go without games, Now thats a question. My answer is, I have a respect for company's that respect me.
Is that respect worth paying for, Yes.

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The first thing I do when I buy a new game is check the web for a no-cd crack.

The fact that I didn't even have to look for GalCiv makes the purchase worthwhile, and being able to download the whole game again should I lose the CDs is a definite bonus.

Copyprotection can also cause problems for, say, an upgrade to a 64bit machine. With a StarForce-d game (say, SplinterCell Chaos Theory) I'd be screwed because the copyprotection crap doesn't do 64bit - even if the app that's wrapped in it would!

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I once bought a game with a warranty the store couldn't honor theirs but there was a clear statement on the box that the manufacturer would replace the game if it ever broke down for reasons other than mis-care. That company was Activision, I went through an automated FAQ database, e-mailed and was responded to by an AI.

Reasons why I love Stardock

*SD Central Download/Update Manager
*Frequent Updates
*Helpful community
*Business Is Business but not abnormally cold
*Human Responses !

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I certainly thank you guys for the decision. Not needing the CD in the drive is a phenomenal advantage... though I'd never pirate a game, your decision still helps me out immensely. Knowing that you'll take a similar path in the future is one very good reason to take a close look at whatever you're selling.

Thanks for not inconveniencing a paying customer, as so many others do!

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The first thing I do when I buy a new game is check the web for a no-cd crack

I would recommend them to any gamer, No need to ruin your precious cd/dcd's

you know what you own and paid for it so its your GAME and you would never COPY it, But in this WORLD, if you did you would never find a site that will allow you to download such a thing as a fix that will allow you to not use the cd without it being in the drive

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I have to quote this section of the article:

"Well" she responded, "You didn't actually purchase the files, you really purchased a license to listen to the music, and the license is very specific about how they can be played or listened to."

Now I was baffled. "Records never came with any such restrictions," I said.

She replied, "Well they were supposed to, but we weren't able to enforce those licenses back then, and now we can"

I disagree with Frogboy: their purpose is not to eliminate piracy, their purpose is monopoly. You have to buy a specific player from a specific company to play specific songs. Eventually you would have to buy a specific, different player for each individual song.

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DivineWrath

Join Date 05/2006

+135

Its the demand. Its always the demand. So long as there is the demand, there will always be those who will be willing to supply. Weather or not, it is from a legal source depends how difficult it is to get something legally. Some people think that they don't have to pay for a product, while others don't want the hassle to go and get it. If you can eliminate the hassle, you can get the service of those who don't like hassle and only have worry about the pirates.
________________
Very few things can prevent determined people from getting what they want. Very few.

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Here, in the uk it i legal to make backup copies from the original.
That implies that if anyone impedes that right then they are acting illegally. Does that mean that the "end user licence" is null and void, well nobody has challenged that, and also, how can you be legally held to a contract that you haven't seen yet.

I mean by this the contract that states if you open the box you're
implicitly agreeing to a contract you haven't seen yet.

This is so much sh*/t it ain't true , what about the data protection act, this at least is a law with guts, we here in Europe have the right to "NEVER" have any third party know anything about us.without permission , it's got companies so scared that they drill it into the grunts that do data entry, "never send out something if they've ticked the box" Unlike other countries that think it's ok to look at a neighgbours credit rating.

I accept my rights and love them. I copy my legally purchased games and bypass the security with pride. But if i were living in other places i could and probably should go to prison.

My answer is £$"% your laws and sc34w you, don't impose your crap on me. If you want to sell your over priced media over here. don't look at Europe to help you impose you're stupid laws.

Rant over , take care all

Marcus

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I received Dread Lords as a gift from my wife for Xmas and have been playing it for about 2 weeks. Its been a blast so far and this site is amazing with all the help and Stardock input.

I have never pirated any game, movie, cd etc and yesterday I had an experience that still has me boiling.
I am relatively new to burning music from cds and have never had a problem before. Well that was until I tried to burn some songs from the new 30 secs to mars CD. Basically it blocked all programs like windows player & ipod from reading the cd and forced you to agree to install their software. I balked. I paid good money for that CD and yet I cant make a copy of a song so I can hear it on a mixed CD? What a crock! If the record companies want to stop piracy fine, but pissing off a paying customer to do it is wrong. Put the dang FBI warnings all over the cd case and CD, have a pop up ad that pirating is illegal, fine but dont MAKE me download a program I did not seek to buy or use. I will not be buying anymore CDS from that band or their label. Why would I want anything from someone that assumes I will break the law and therefore labels me "criminal" without ever meeting me?

Playing Dread Lords without the CD in my laptop is a wonderful thing and one I won't soon forget (thanks stardock). Shoving that crappy CD into an envelope and sending it to that music label is something me and my wallet won't ever forget. Ever.

Thanks for the venting

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Frogboy, you point is moot. You do have copy protection. I have a legit copy of both games, but since my PC will never be connected to the net, I am unable to update my game with the newest patch.

Looks like copy protection to me. When you dictate to me how I should use my hardware, you aren't any better than they are.

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The goal is not to eliminate piracy. The goal is to increase sales.

A good way to go about running a business. I definitely think that some go way too far in their attempts to stop piracy. Simply put, it's a complete waste of time and money: it's a lose-lose situation as piracy is something that is (very likely) perpetual and trying to combat it could end up backfiring, as the article points out.

For me, being able to purchase games via download and always being able to install your copy of the game without a CD/DVD is extremely convenient. I was skeptical about Valve's creation of Steam but after using it, I must say, it's an awesome way to "store" a game. No more outdated CDs/DVDs and when I install the game freshly, I'm guaranteed the latest version. It's the reason why, after hearing how good GCII was, I bought the game off of Stardock's online store.

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I know I've had several issues with various games in the past, where the anti-piracy protection interfered with the installation. Myst: Uru had so many complaints, they had to provide an official no-CD crack for their own game. I'm sure most everyone here has a tale about copy-protection software causing them grief.

I really admire Stardock's stance on things, and it's a good call to sensible thinking. I think some publishers get into the habit of "building a better lock" to prevent piracy, and don't think about other ways to achieve the same goal. Eventually the lock gets so complicated, even the owner has trouble remembering the combination.

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Frogboy, you point is moot. You do have copy protection. I have a legit copy of both games, but since my PC will never be connected to the net, I am unable to update my game with the newest patch.

Looks like copy protection to me. When you dictate to me how I should use my hardware, you aren't any better than they are.

Sorry MOIISKA but I think your point is moot. How did you post in this forum thread? Obviously you have a PC that IS connected to the net, just put 2 and 2 together and you'll figure it out.

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I don't see any difference between the two categories. In fact, Stardock's procedure is counterproductive, at least in my situation, since the game in question doesn't seem to run right, to uninstall and reinstall seems to cause more issues at times than all of this is worth. Of course I am biased but that is only because I never seem to have a resolution to this game and it's 'problems'. Just when I get it to run, a problem arises. So how do you get a refund? If I buy a store bought, piracy protected game and have problems I can always attempt to return it. Based on how I handle the situation, usually I have luck with making the return. What do you do in this case? There's a bunch of digital info out there with my name on it, yet what good is it? Does Stardock have a system in place to take care of customers like myself who wish to either:
A: Have a functioning piece of software that does what it is supposed to do, which I paid for.
B: Get our money back since it was basically a wasted purchase.
How does Stardock handle this? Customer support seems to be a waste of time with all of the "well, we don't know what to do for you sir" crap. How about a refund? How about fix the game? How about some actual customer SERVICE!!! What ever happened to that?

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Frogboy, you point is moot. You do have copy protection. I have a legit copy of both games, but since my PC will never be connected to the net, I am unable to update my game with the newest patch.

Looks like copy protection to me. When you dictate to me how I should use my hardware, you aren't any better than they are.

I'm surprised your computer doesn't connect to the Internet. Are you posting from work? Another computer in your house that IS connected?

You're right, what Stardock is doing *is* copy protection from a certain point of view. You can buy the game and play it as it is (like console games, if they're buggy, you're screwed, do you complain about them?) but you need to use Stardock Central to get updates. Yes, it sucks that you have to install another program to get updates but it's their way to know if your game is a legit copy. However, I'm sure most people are connected to the Internet nowadays and can get the updates. It's not Stardock's fault you don't have your computer connected to the Internet so stop blaming them. This is probably the most user-friendly form of copy protection out there. Stardock is not using other copy protection software or dirty tricks other companies are using, and for that, I will gladly pay for their products.

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I have to say I have no problems with Stardock's approach to copy protection. I've had a lot more annoying experiences with CP from the likes of EA and even Valve(before steam). SDC is simple and just does it's job(at least it always has for me). It's not nearly as intrusive as steam's system, having to be constantly online to play a single player game. With DVD-Rom games the CP problem gets worse because, your having to fight the DVD protection also. Caused me big issues when I first got Perimeter I remember. That's another one the company ended up having to issue an official No-DVD patch for. I never used no-CD cracks before I got GC2, but after having the convenience of not having to put the cd in everytime, I look for no-cd Cracks for all my games now.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Quibbling over whether SDC is "copy protection" or not aside, I have to say again that for some of us who believe modern copyright is wrong, Brad's business model is especially interesting because it would work without copyright law.

Unlike many other software firms that are putting out a lot of talk about "software as a service," Stardock appear to understand that the real way to make money is not through wallowing in a lawyer-sodden hangover from the mercantilist era but through building trust with a customer community.

p.s. To my fellow privacy nuts: I had to grit my teeth, squint, and otherwise browbeat myself into finally installing and using SDC. IIRC, I never once updated my legal copy of GalCiv 1. But for the moment, I'm persuaded that Stardock are darned civilized sorts despite being rampant capitalists.

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Frogboy, you point is moot. You do have copy protection. I have a legit copy of both games, but since my PC will never be connected to the net, I am unable to update my game with the newest patch.

Looks like copy protection to me. When you dictate to me how I should use my hardware, you aren't any better than they are.

Sorry MOIISKA but I think your point is moot. How did you post in this forum thread? Obviously you have a PC that IS connected to the net, just put 2 and 2 together and you'll figure it out.

Yes, because a PC is the only internet accessible piece of equipment there is out there.

Who knows, maybe I am posting from a MAC (which I switched to back in '97), or a linux box (which I use at work).

I purchased a PC, just because of GalCivII. I reall did, and now I am unable to play the newest/uost update version of DA. I used to be able to download to my MAC, then transfer to a PC via a flash card (after it was thoroughly scrubbed by various spyware programs).

Frogboy, you point is moot. You do have copy protection. I have a legit copy of both games, but since my PC will never be connected to the net, I am unable to update my game with the newest patch.

Looks like copy protection to me. When you dictate to me how I should use my hardware, you aren't any better than they are.

I'm surprised your computer doesn't connect to the Internet. Are you posting from work? Another computer in your house that IS connected?

You're right, what Stardock is doing *is* copy protection from a certain point of view. You can buy the game and play it as it is (like console games, if they're buggy, you're screwed, do you complain about them?) but you need to use Stardock Central to get updates. Yes, it sucks that you have to install another program to get updates but it's their way to know if your game is a legit copy. However, I'm sure most people are connected to the Internet nowadays and can get the updates. It's not Stardock's fault you don't have your computer connected to the Internet so stop blaming them. This is probably the most user-friendly form of copy protection out there. Stardock is not using other copy protection software or dirty tricks other companies are using, and for that, I will gladly pay for their products.

I use MAC's exlusively at home (other than my non-net PC gaming machine), and linux boxes at work.

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Sorry MOIISKA but I think your point is moot. How did you post in this forum thread? Obviously you have a PC that IS connected to the net, just put 2 and 2 together and you'll figure it out.

There's more ways than a home computer to connect to the Internet with. Every public library will allow you to post messages on forums like this, and then there's internet cafes. And some people post from work. But that doesn't mean they will allow you to install a program like Stardock Central on that computer. That requires administrator rights which not too many people on a public system will have. And without Stardock Central installed on an internet connected machine, you can't update the game.

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I have to say I have no problems with Stardock's approach to copy protection.

I didn't until they started insisting that Stardock Central was required in order to get the patches. Instead of downloading a file from the public network I have access to then validating via email, I had to hand over $140 in order to get a wireless rig and tap into a network that is horrendously unreliable. It turned out to be a rather expensive game! I'm not impressed at having to add that extra expensive just to play a bloody game, no matter how good it is.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

There is an argument that says Stardock releases games with loads of bugs and therefore you, as a consumer, are forced to buy a legitimate copy in order to get your game working.

I don't think that would be a valid argument. GalCiv II reviews were based on 1.0 (not even 1.0X) and averaged 4.5 out of 5. While GalCiv II is certainly not "bug free" I think someone would be hard pressed to argue that it had "loads of bugs" or that people were "forced" to update.

The only serious GalCiv II issue when it was released was video card overheating since the game was one of the first to make full use of DirectX 9C and some PCs with inadequate cooling had a problem. 1.0X introduced throttling (and 1.0X didn't have any sort of copy protection either).

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The focus should be making sure it's more convenient to buy your product than to steal it.

Or perhaps making sure your product is worth purchasing in the first place. I'm sure I'm not the only one who balks at paying full price for a game which is almost an exact copy of with different textures.

Here, in the uk it i legal to make backup copies from the original.

Actually it's not. The UK is the only country in Europe (and possibly the world) not to have the right to back up in it's fair use policy.

how can you be legally held to a contract that you haven't seen yet.

A EULA isn't a contract as such. It's self explanatory - it's an agreement between the company to provide you with a service as long as you fulfil certain obligations. If you break your side of the agreement, the best the company could hope for is for the court to sieze the CD (or else bind you not to play the game). Of course, that assumes the judge wouldn't dismiss the case out of hand (as you said, you can't see the agreement prior to agreeing). From the developer/publishers side, a EULA is pretty much worthless unless you have the means to remove the ability to play without involving the court.

I use MAC's exlusively at home (other than my non-net PC gaming machine)

Couldn't you just switch the cable between the MAC and PC?

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I don't see how StarDock is much different from Steam. I guess you don't really have to activate your game to play it, but what's the use of playing a really outdated version? Still, I've found Galatic Civilizations II - Gold Edition to be the least painful game to install and play. No disc required in the damn drive, that's always a plus. Some games (particularly DVD games) spin in my drive for close to five minutes before I can do anything. Some examples would be The Godfather, The Sims 2... all EA Games, so maybe it's some weird copy protection scheme they use exclusively, no idea. But it sucks big time. I have better things to do than sit here for five minutes listening to clicks and thumps emanating from my DVD-ROM, and whatever's happening in there doesn't sound healthy for the drive, either.

Anyway, my point is, it's always the paying customer who suffers these inconveniences, and StarDock have it right. Any software can be cracked, and I think these guys get off on proving they can get around any copy protection anyway, so it just gives them more motivation.

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I think someone would be hard pressed to argue that it had "loads of bugs" or that people were "forced" to update.

I guess it's a question of whether the Stardock update service should be considered free or part of the package we paid for. Especially considering the free updates were highlighted as a major selling point for the game...

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

I don't see how StarDock is much different from Steam.

SDC is only needed to install or update the game. Aside from that, you never need to touch it or have it running. In fact, you could even uninstall it if you like once you have the game installed/updated, and the game will still be perfectly happy.

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How copy protection creates pirates

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