Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Dominions 3 goes gold!

Intense fantasy strategy game available soon

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Our friends at Shrapnel Games have announced that Dominions 3, the latest incarnation of the cult-hit Dominions fantasy strategy game has gone gold.

Dominions 3: The Awakening puts players in the role of leader of a fantasy-based realm -- one of over 50 realms in an epic world where men, monsters and gods struggle for dominion.

Lead one of over fifty nations in three different Ages, against up to twenty other players (AI or human), in the ultimate struggle of sword and steel for the right to claim dominion over all. Simultaneous turn structuring keeps the massive number of players thoroughly involved in the game, without downtime, and with the incredible number of options available to players each turn, gameplay is always tense and exciting.

Just as NetHack, with its seemingly endless catalog of creatures and items is considered by many to be the ultimate Rogue experience, Dominions 3: The Awakening strives to achieve the same status in the world of 4X strategy gaming. Featuring more than 1500 troop types, 600+ spells, and 300+ magic items, it will take players an epoch to merely see everything Dominions 3 has to offer. Yet, that day never has to come. Dominions 3 has been built with the mod-maker in mind, allowing players to easily add new items into the game. Mod-making can be as simple as you like, such as easily importing new maps
into the game, or more complex, such as creating new items.

While for many the true thrill of Dominions comes with playing against others, the single-player experience has been enhanced in Dominions 3: The Awakening with the oft-requested random map feature. An endless supply of maps to wage celestial war on at the click of the mouse! Other improvements over previous titles in the series includes
less micromanagement, transparent mechanics, overhauled graphics, a streamlined interface, rebalanced gameplay elements, map filters, an autotax ability, a thick tome of a manual by Bruce Geryk, and much more. Fans of the series will find the core gameplay that is so addictive hasn't been changed, but the entire experience has been made cleaner, and less threatening to newcomers.

Dominions 3: The Awakening is available through the Shrapnel Games' online-store, the Gamers Front at www.gamersfront.com/xcart/home.php for only $54.95.

(note: we're not affiliated with Shrapnel, we just like their games and their company and think there's a good chance that many players of GalCiv II may also like Dominions 3).

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Cheers Frogboy, just downloaded the dominions 2 demo (none available for 3), I have heard good things about dominions on various forum threads, just played for an hr and it looks good so far. It certainly looks complicated but I am following the walkthru u can download and I can feel myself being sucked in. It looks to be very playable but the graphics r functional, no more.

If it hooks me I may pay the $55 for dominions 3. Cheers again for the link.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

$55 for an indy game? Sorry, I have interest in it, but $55 for an indy game is too much. $40 I'd get it, $50 I'd consider it. Especially if the AI is shoddy. Note- due to GCII, I now expect AI on games to be that good unless there's a large MP scene.

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I know that it isn't trying to be a graphical powerhouse, but the =art= in D3 doesn't look like something I can stare at for hours on end. It's fuzzy with obvious pixelation and there's apparently no animation. The special effects in the screenshots actually look pretty good, which makes the art they're next to look even fuglier in comparison.

Master of Magic has better graphics, never cost 55$, and while the interface is somewhat behind the curve (it's at least 10-15 years old) it's still a lot more accessible and powerful than what I encountered when I tried to play the Dominions 2 demo a few months ago.

A lot of people have complained that GalCiv II didn't have 20+ different races and eighteen different hull types or whatever, frankly the numbers are unimpressive all around. That didn't stop it from being a great game, simply because what content it did have was highly polished and part of a greater whole. I can't see how the makers of Dominions 3 could manage the same thing with their 'catalog' of content.

So, in my pointless opinion I don't think Stardock should shelve their plans for a turn-based fantasy game anytime soon. There's still a lot of room for improvement. Somewhere between the intense blandness and anticreativity of Heroes of Might & Magic, and the epicly content-bloated Dominions series, there has to be a happy medium where a talented group of game designers can truly bring the sub-genre into a new epoch.

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I was a very big Dominions 2 fan, going so far as to work extensively on programming enhancements on Dom2's fan-made random map generator. But given GalCiv2's focus on creating a top quality AI, GC2 fans should especially know that the Dom3 developers primarily consider the Dominions games to be multiplayer games. IE: In Dom2, you can only save by exiting the game unless you alt-tab out to use a fan-created utility. The AI in the past has been rather weak and exploitable, and the typical developer and fan response to AI complaints has been "play against humans then". (In its defense, the multiplayer options are good, and if has a pretty good multiplay community)

Some forum discussion on the Shrapnel Dom boards querying about plans for Dom3 AI improvement has led me to believe there was much in the works and so this will be the case for Dom3 as well (and which led to me losing much interest in following its progress any further).

Illwinter (the developers of Dominions3) is a very small team, far smaller than Stardock, and from what I gathered, they're unfortunately not so inclined to work on features that don't interest them (it seems such as AI, UI, and single-player enhancements).

That said, Dom 2 was deep enough that even for a single-player-only gamer like myself, I was able to stay interested in it for a very long time before its assorted flaws caused me to lose interest and move on. I post here because Gal Civ 2 has raised a lot of people's expectations of what an AI can do, and likely if you go into playing Dom3 with those kinds of expectations you will be sadly disappointed.

If you're unsure about Dom3 - it's AI or graphics or whatever, I recommend waiting for the demo to come out and trying that first. The graphics in Dom2 put me off at first, but once I played the demo, the gameplay depth sold me on the game, and I never regretted the purchase (despite the above-mentioned AI flaws).

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I second lintman's succinct summary.

Illwinter's team consists of 3 people, and I think all of them are full-time schoolteachers. The Dominions series is, I believe, made and published in their spare time. That's amazing. But of course, it also means that they do not have the resources to make a game with QC that Stardock has. One of their faults is most certainly AI. It is not good. I loved Dom2 for a very long time, but it is only really playable against fellow humans. Their other fault is graphics, but that is forgiveable.
Dom3, however, seems (to me, a longtime Dominions fan) nothing more than an elaborate expansion on Dom2. I will have to wait for the demo before spending over 50 dollars for an expansion, however nice.

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Alstein

Join Date 07/2004

+55

Don't get me wrong- I respect the effort- knowing the resources, but they're not going to sell it well at $55. Also, my expectations before GC2 were high to begin with, I don't buy many games- I buy under 10 console and PC combined in a year, and enjoy maybe half of those.

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I would find it hard to believe that there is a large crossover between GC2 fans and Dom2/3 fans.

Dom is basically MP only since the AI has always sucked. More because of all the useless junk they keep on throwing in with little mind to balance or entertainment.

Then there's the price tag... completely unreasonable for a MP only niche game in my opinion, but hey, it's their baby.

That said I like the developers at Illwinter, and I like the Dom community, I just don't think any of them really care about SP gaming (as far as Dom is concerned).

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I would find it hard to believe that there is a large crossover between GC2 fans and Dom2/3 fans.

Why? In a recent stardock poll, a 4xfantasy strategy game was the most requested game to be developed next. Alot of sci-fi strategy fans r civ strategy fans and fantasy strategy fans. Perhaps the keyword is strategy?

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me? i actually think frogboy is right... i enjoy dominions 2 and eagerly await dom 3... lots of strategy and tactics

just to give u an idea of dom2- there is alot of flexibility in designing your 'pretender god' as well as your nation. there is a choice between creating a more powerful pretender which enhances your holy units as well vs the nation as a whole, whether more oriented towards economics or magic, or even a nation which obliterates the other nations economy since your undead troops don't require any expensive upkeep...

not only are there actual national borders, but the influence of your religion... the stronger your influence the faster it spreads beyond your borders as well as the realignment and conversion of the world to your preference.

and if you play it multiplayer... there is the diplomacy, alliances and backstabbing... there is enough of a dominions community that you can get a multiplayer game going and have someone host the game.

it is definitely one of those games that doesn't have a shelf life.

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Is there any chance that Dominions 3 will ever be available by TotalGaming.net?

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GalCiv II is a very very strong singleplayer game, with no real multiplayer to speak of. Dominions is not worth playing singleplayer, therefore it's pretty much just a multiplayer game. That's the argument for there not being a big crossover between the fanbases.

Dominions 3 looks like a pretty good game from a trio of schoolteachers working on it in their spare time, but 55$ sets an extremely high expectation. That's pretty much maximum price for a standard-package (not collector) PC game. Compare to Mount & Blade, made by one guy and his wife, which costs something like 20$. Or compare to a 1+ year old PC or console game, which can quite often be purchased for a mere 20 - 30$. It simply doesn't make any sense to have a fairly unpolished game that was made in a few people's spare time cost 55$, unless their intent is to squeeze the most money out of a small fanbase.

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Sure, but Dom is absolutely balls for SP. Alot of GC fans might be interested in it, but in the end I think they'll tire of its tediousness and essential MP requirement.

Look, I played Dom2 alot, even had a good group of guys to MP with, but its tedious, and its slow, and it pissed me off that they really didn't care about SP much. If you like both MP and SP great, if you vastly prefer SP then Dom really isn't going to cut it for you. And at $55 they are going to price out alot of the people with a more casual intrest in it. I know that's priced me out of it.

It simply doesn't make any sense to have a fairly unpolished game that was made in a few people's spare time cost 55$, unless their intent is to squeeze the most money out of a small fanbase.

I agree completly. I don't what Illwinter and Shrapnel are thinking with that price point. But hey, I don't really care that much either

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I've seen several topics on the Dominions forums from people who could not win the computer AIs from Dominions even after several games. As with any game with SP functionality the AI weaknesses will eventually be noticed. Thus as with most games with SP functionality you simply increase the difficulty, setup alliances and/or other changes to keep the game challenging. The AI for Dominions_3 has been improved to include 3 types of AI: Aggressive, Standard, Defensive.

One great feature for Dominions2 and Dominions3 is the combat... allowing you to select what units will be doing in battle and where units will stand before the battle starts. With time gamers identify different strategies which work well on the battlefield which is very intellectually stimulating.

The game is more impressive and fun with other honorable human opponents... which is true with any game.

Eventually a free demo will arrive for Dominions_3... I recommend everyone trying the demo and then making decisions about whether or not the game is worth the purchase.

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I would find it hard to believe that there is a large crossover between GC2 fans and Dom2/3 fans.

Well, here's another one to add to the tally. I like GalCiv2 for SP and Dom2 for MP and even if I only counted the time I played Dom2 in SP (which is most definitely not its strongest side) it still got a better time/price ratio and fun/price ratio than many AAA titles that I buy for their polished production values, play through once or twice, and then put aside because of a fundamental lack of replayability.

It simply doesn't make any sense to have a fairly unpolished game that was made in a few people's spare time cost 55$, unless their intent is to squeeze the most money out of a small fanbase.

I have never been of the belief that developers should charge lower prices because they are a smaller company or deliver less polished products; They should charge what their expected market can reasonably bear such as to, hopefully, score a decent profit or, if things go really bad, at least cover a large part of the development costs. There is no reason whatsoever to cater to those wanting a $20 price tag "like the thing I can pick up from the bargain bin from last year" - unless, of course, by slashing the price tag from $55 to $20 you'd expect at least a quadrupling of buyers (and that is probably a generously low estimate) - which seems extremely unlikely for what is a niché game with a definite lack of mass appeal.

Fundamentally, if you are in the "I can only afford/I only want to buy/my choice is between X (polished) and Y (unpolished), what do they cost?..." category of consumer, there is no way any niche developer can realistically compete for your attention and still turn a profit so they will not even try.... They'll snag the "I like the niche you are working in and accept that you compete against other games in that niche on game depth and replayability rather than price or overall production values" crowd instead - a smaller crowd, to be sure, but one that'll pony up and, in most cases, by quite happy with the fun-to-price ratio.

The Stardock forum has a considerable subset of players of that "niche" mindset as is evidenced by how many have played e.g. the venerable Space Empires IV - another game that stands no chance at all competing with AAA title production values (or competing with any good AI

) yet has a fantastic depth.

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2419

Here's my two cents:

I think Domininions 2 is the best fantasy strategy game that has ever been made. It has depth, it has expandability. And while some may not like the graphics, the entire game is easily moddable and third parties have made some incredibly cool stuff for it.

I have no doubt that Dominions 3 will be the same sort of thing. It's a great game.

I also am very certain that there is a significant subset of GalCiv II players who are likely to enjoy Dominions just as I think there's a lot of Dominions players who are likely to enjoy GalCiv.

But more to the point -- we're all on the same side here. Shrapnel and co. are our kind of people. We should do what we can to support them. The world is a better place with games like Dominions.

If fantasy strategy or hard core strategy games like Dominions aren't your cup of tea, that's fine. But I think it's a great game and the people who make it and the community around it is wonderful IMO.

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Anyone who has not tried Dominions yet, download the Dominions 2 demo and walkthru. It's completely free, has alot of depth just in this demo (u can play alot of nations/gods and have access to 2 maps) and where u go from there is upto u. The AI can be set from beginner to impossible, what that means I do not know, only been playing 2 days...

It will appeal to anyone who likes Warlords, Age Of Wonders, Heroes Of Might & Magic and Disciples.

I agree $55 is steep but not owning any of the previous Dominions series I think I will buy Dominions 3 as its out in October. I can play this until Dark Avatar comes out.

I think quality is more important then price, ie...paying $55 dollars for a game u will play to death is better then paying $30 each ($90 total) for 3 games that u just play for a couple of hrs then forget about. Lets face it there r stacks of those types of games.

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I believe part of the price point can be explained by the exchange rate to the dollar.

I am very much looking forward to Dom 3. I think $55 is reasonable considering the huge amount of gameplay offered. I would prefer to buy fewer games but pay higher prices if I can get games like Gal Civ II and the Dominions series games that way, copared to the next installment of Doom or whatever.

Tony

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I am a *huge* Dominions fan, and I'm quite happy to see Frogboy say so much good about it.
The keywords with Dominions are "content" and "deepness": I play Dom2 since it was out, still have MPs games ongoing, and yet discover new things, strategies, spells, each time I play.
Sure the graphics are dated, the interface needs time to get accustomed to, and the documentation was largely missing. Dom3 should improve things on these aspects, while not changing drastically from Dom2.
About the faulty AI, I confirm that it may be far from top-notch, but yet offers enough challenge for new players for some months before getting boring. Again Dom3 will see the SP made more interesting with a much better "strategic" AI (and I speak after having played a press preview beta version !).
Yet there is the 55$ price tag ... At least some bucks are due to the poor USD value (complaint to your government !), but what people should understand is that "niche" games, with small audience, can be more expensive just because they sell in 1'000s only.
And frankly, I've bought Dom2 and played it for sevral hundred hours, my bets game investment with Combat Mission (my other pet peeve). Now I'm more than happy to sink 55$ in Dom3. I even bought the very old Illwinter game "Conquest of Elysium" last year just to give them money !
So as someone already stated, I urge everyone interested in deep, fantasy strategy games to grab the Dom2 demo (even playable MP !), roam the Dom board to get fan-made documentation (there are several very good docs) and try it !

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I hear y'alls points about Dom3, hell I played alot of Dom2 (even some MP with you PDF...), and its fine for MP.

My point is that for many people who do not have the time or inclination for MP (which seemingly would be many GC2 players, else why does MP always get voted down?) Dom is a fun 2 months before it gets far far too tedious or boring to be played SP. Nothing against people touting the game for what it does well, nothing against people pointing out what it does horribly either.

I'm quite sure I'll check out the demo when it comes out, but I'm also quite sure I'll pass on actually buying the game for myself knowing what I already know about it and about the developers ambitions for it.

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Ok, I tried the demo of Dom II half a year ago and didn't understand anything. WAY to complicated. I also didn't like GalCiv II that much since it's boring since it's all about planning and no real action. So is Dominions III just a bunch of planning or are there battles like in Age of Wonders in which you move your troops?

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So is Dominions III just a bunch of planning or are there battles like in Age of Wonders in which you move your troops?

No tactical control of battles. You set your orders for your armies and script your spells and whatnot, then its just watch and hope

I don't mind that set up, but the AI is miserable at it. At least Dom2 wise. I havn't really seen much to believe that it will be much better in Dom3.

The complexity of Dom is both a positive and a negative, just depends on what you are looking for.

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