Something that is interesting from RPGs like Diablo: Finding the various random treasures, getting those special magic items and rare goodies. What is that in a 4x game like GalCiv? Is it finding the various random planets?

The possibilities that could exist when you open a chest, or kill that level boss for a monster drop, are many different kinds, and you can hope for a good one, but not know what it's gonna be. Maybe you luck up and get that third ruby for your archer's bow. Maybe you find some interesting new unique item. or maybe just hope for a really good rune (which are extremely rare). But usually you just get some gold, potions, and scrolls, with a ring/amulet tossed in once and a while.

Sometimes I think that this concept -- the Random Treasures Tables -- is sort of in it's infancy with 4x games. Mostly because the planets are the main random treasure; like a level-boss moster drop, they are few and far between.

You missing the point, you can CALL the planet type what ever you like ,my suggestion was :

1. Make different technology needed to land on different types of planets.
2. Make speciffic type of planet "native" to speciffic race, others will have negative bonus there until another speciffic for that planet type technology will be researched.

I agree, and this could be done in the following way:

- all tiles on the planet are given a specific type (desert, ocean, artic, radioactive and so on)
- all races would have one or more prefered tileset
- a given race would see a planet as habitable depending on it's preferences and would not necessarily use the tiles that another race would use
- this would mean that a planet habitability would not be the same for all races (some balancing required here to generate the map, but I believe nothing unfeasible) ; also, for convenience, planets could be broadly categorized as barren, artic etc. using that classification to generate the appropriate tiles (more tundra and artic on artic planets etc.).
- technology could unlock some (all ?) tiles as terraforaming (and maybe other) techs progress.

For example, a planet could be "moslty" arctic. Meaning when you first land there as a "normal" race, you'd have 2-3 available tiles (likely the equator...). Another race ("artic" race) could see the same planet as beeing quality 20, that planet being well suited for them. A weather control tech (which would have to be built anyway) could then later unlock the arctic spaces and leave them open for terraforming (i.e. they would still have to be individually converted).

Does not strike me as very difficult to implement (most of the mechanism seems already in place), but I may be mistaken.

In addition, I think that most planets should be at least 2 in habitability: 1 for the basic colony, 1 for the appropriate terraforming equipment. And basic, underdevelopped colonies, should drain your treasury.

Then, there could be a classification based on the atmosphere type (oxygen-nitrogen, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, methan, none...) ; a planet would be mostly uninhabitable under the wrong type of atmosphere (but good for you if the right type). Under these conditions, only domed cities could survive (if you're the wrong type), which would actually mean very low habitability. The 2 above: as long as you do not have built the appropriate atmosphere converter (generator) you'd be stuck with what basically is an outpost. Good for the long run, a drain in the short view of things. The same could be done with gravity.

Such a mechanism would greatly improve the game : as of now, the problem is to grab the best planets around, and that's pretty all: further expansion means war. With such a mechanism, you could attempt to tread a peacefull expansion path by colonizing the planets that nobody wants. You would also always be faced with the question of whether you expand your outpost number (costly) or just hope nobody grabs empty planets before you claim them (instead of the current strategy where there is an initial rush, then nothing).

Yves

I love moi-meme's idea!

Like I said, sounds awsome, it just wont happen.

I get the feelign the general design of the game is to not make it overtly micomanagement dependant. Thou having certain types of land preffered by different races would be great, to take full advantage of this they would have to implement race migrations and distinguish between which population is which race, which I dont see implemented atm so I dont think it will be.

If you're afraid about balaincing problems, make it an optional feature: all races having same atmosphere / same prefered tileset.

About how the AI could handle this, I think not that bad: Moo did not a bad work with this and I remember Silicoids either screwed up or being the top dog.

Furthermore, there is not that much micromanagement invoved ; in any case, not much more that there already is.

Yves

I like the idea of having tile preferences. For instance, maybe there are ten different kinds of tile, and each race has three of them that it calls green tiles and two that it calls yellow tiles. Something like:

Terran
- Ocean
G Plains
Y Desert
Y Arctic
G Mountain
- Rock
- Dust
G Jungle
- Quagmire
- Lava

Then the overall PQ is just as it normally is (green tile count?) but would be different for each race. That could change the flavor of the early game, about who your enemies are, which planets to race for, and which ones can wait (because the 'enemy' doesn't care).

And the tile frequency distributions could be a function of the star type. So for instance, a Yellow sun might have a larger likelihood of Ocean, Plains, and Mountains, while a different colored star might have more Rock, Desert, and Dust tiles.

Fun for everybody

I agree with Lord KiRon .
I still sometimes play MOO2, just because no other game around that I know has that diversity mix.

Yves

Lowa11, OMG! How could you not know Master of Orion

moi, I too play the game a bit here and there. Altough having seen it played at competitive level that just blows your mind, you see that the game design is totally unbalanced :/ I enjoy a game on Kali here and there, nothing fancy. Single player? Hmmm it's simply not a challenge if you played agianst a Human who showed you how the game ought to be played. Moo2 had a cheatign AI, which is never good. But the goodness of it was the simplistic design which made it a breeze to micro (Until you had liek 40 colonies and just gave up on it). The game stayed away from large numbers and sliders. Sliders were the bane of Moo1, but at the time probably best way to get the job done. Sliders are simplistic and inefficient. If you try to complicate sliders, that's when the real problems start.

Altough the biggest problem with moo2 micro management might have been lack of defualt queues And some of the governments were simply unplayable.