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Paul Bambury
Paul Bambury
Join Date 12/2007
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Fog of war

December 16, 2008 7:16:46 AM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Been playing GC2 again after the recent updates to ToA. Playing as the Drengin on a random map, and got involved in a war with the Yor (assassination event). Our territories share a border, so figured I'm going to kill them sooner rather than later anyway, so why not. Anyway, so while the Yor are sending wave after wave of small attack fleets to get shot down over the border worlds, I'm busy creating an invasion fleet and its staging area is a good way into my own territory, away from the border; in what I imagine, to the Yor, should be FOW. So imagine my suprise when a large fleet of Yor ships appears out of my FOW and is heading straight for my invasion force. How the c*** did the AI know it was there?!! There are no Yor starbases in my territory; no Yor scoutships wandered past and uncovered it; the Yor attack force is practically blind since the Yor seem to be building ships that consist of little more than hulls with as many guns has possible crammed on! Has this new patch created a bug/cheat for the AI?

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Paul Bambury
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #1 December 16, 2008 8:07:44 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Screenshots would be helpful.  Part of me is inclined to agree, but I know from the past that Brad does his best to ensure that the AI does not have advantages like these, although at times it can look very much like it.

For what it's worth, did the Yor happen to beat you to the Eyes of the Universe?

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Paul Bambury
Paul Bambury
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #2 December 16, 2008 9:10:08 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

I very much doubt that they've researched Eyes of the Universe, Its early on the game (we're all still on basic beam weapons, mass drivers etc.) In fact, looking that diplomacy screen, the Yor don't even seem to begun researching Sensors yet!

Anyway, screenshots.

This a shot of my invasion fleet in its staging area. The Yor fleet is heading for the central one of those three border planets, and has come from Yor territory.

Now I move one of the escort groups in the invasion fleet three moves south. Horror! It runs across a Yor force. Clicking on the Yor fleet reveals it to be on an auto-pilot course north, to the staging area.

This is a ship in the Yor fleet. Going on all out on the missiles! Not much room for anything else though...

Finally, a shot of the area with FOW turned off (CTRL-U)

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Paul Bambury
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #3 December 16, 2008 9:33:02 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Well, at least Eyes are ruled out, if they haven't researched Sensors.

Can you get a shot of just one Yor ship?  If you click on the fleet and then select an individual ship, the manage button should turn into a details button.

Do you still have a savegame several turns prior?

What missile tech are they on?  It seems they have 3 firepower in a small hull, which would seem to require Harpoon (I).  A stinger and a sparrow wouldn't fit, even with the Yor's innate miniaturization -and- basic researched.

Come to think of it-what difficulty is this, even?

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Paul Bambury
Paul Bambury
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Reply #4 December 16, 2008 11:17:29 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

They're using Seeker II's, three of which will fit on a small hull. Difficulty is on Normal. They are slightly ahead of me on military techs, but not by much. Afraid I haven't got saves going back. It would be useful to track the progress of that Yor fleet. I'll see if I can retreat my invasion force to orbit, let the Yor fleet go off to something else and reassemble the invasion force and watch what happens.

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Paul Bambury
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #5 December 16, 2008 12:07:39 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Ah, right.  Forgot about those.

Well, scratch that, then.  I was thinking maybe it was Suicidal's sensor bonus...

Can you train a spy real quick and drop it on them (civ-level)?  Basic espionage level lets you see their racial stats, which would allow us to rule out them having selected a sensor bonus, among other things.

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Paul Bambury
Paul Bambury
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Reply #6 December 16, 2008 7:14:55 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Sensor bonus is 1% (am already at advanced espionage level for the Yor),. I really can't imagine that would give a visibility so far into my space as per the screenshots

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Paul Bambury
Xrati
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #7 December 16, 2008 10:13:43 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Can any other races or NPR's see those ships? They may have an alliance. I have noticed that in past games, usually the Drengin, send fleets at targets they couldn't possibly see. AND if I move the ships, they stay targeted on them. I've also seen them target bases (non mining) well within my ZOC that they shouldn't even know exist. So the AI does get some FOW advantages. I don't know what extent or to what levels you need to be that allow this.

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Paul Bambury
Paul Bambury
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Reply #8 December 18, 2008 7:33:37 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

No other ships belong to other races have uncovered my not-so-secret fleet; at least not that I'm aware of. As for alliances, the Yor don't have - I don't think anyone's even researched it yet. Is there any way I can switch race in game? It would be useful to see exactly what the limit of the Yor's FOW actually is.

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Paul Bambury
Xrati
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #9 December 18, 2008 9:42:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

No, not in game. You'd have to start another game.

I know there's a mega event for movement but I'm not sure about one for sensor range?

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Paul Bambury
WIllythemailboy
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #10 December 18, 2008 3:09:27 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

There is. Basically everyone gets the same sensor range as the Eyes of the Universe, if not the showing fleets in fog benefit. Judging from the fog picture he posted, that hasn't happened.

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Paul Bambury
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #11 December 19, 2008 12:16:02 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

You might try this method.  My understanding is that it would allow one to play as the AI.  I've never tried it myself, though.

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Paul Bambury
Taliesin
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #12 December 19, 2008 7:36:22 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

I'd like to offer my experience as a programer, I have expreience in their feild of game making. Though I haven't looked at the source files for Galciv2 My guess is that they were programmed to do this on high level's. Unlike humans the computer doesn't need sa visual read out of the playing feild, It litterally knows everything that's going on. It's just reacts with a set of principles and rule that must be followed. It is possible that on hard AI lvl's the rule  to Fog-of-war cancels itself for all AI players. thus your units may be shrouded by a black screen but the Yor ships are programed to move towards your ships and ignore the collision event with the fog-of-war tiles which stops them from doing so.

If that made no sense to you then I say this in short, they might just be programmed to do this to make the game harder.

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Paul Bambury
Xrati
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #13 December 19, 2008 9:48:41 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Then it's not really FOW as far as the AI is concerned. No wonder they never research sensors!!!  

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Paul Bambury
Otterbear
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #14 October 9, 2009 6:03:42 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I USUALLY use the "clear fog of war" cheat, as I am only hamstringing myself if I do not. IMHO, Taliesin is right...(and I belive there are post on here to back it up)...that the AI is not hampered (in any way) by the fog of war. I could be wrong though. There may be some coding that keeps the human races from "seeing" which planets are "valuable" and which are not...I think the human races are the only ones stuck looking all over for habitable planets...all the other races (from what I've read) can see everything clearly from the start. I would be interested in knowing if thats correct though.

 

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Paul Bambury
GooglyBoogly
Join Date 12/2009
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Reply #15 December 7, 2009 4:33:09 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

Can anyone Confirm/deny that the AI cheats on Bright and above by ignoring fog of war?

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