Too Many Bugs!

Not sure if there is a special place one should go just to rant, but here it is:

I bought DA some time ago but only got around to really playing it recently. I'm at release 1.08. I am finding this game to be inexcusably bug-ridden for a mainstream blockbuster release. What the heck happened?? In addition to the invisible ship bug, I can't begin to count the other different types of lockups, crashes, serious video glitches and obvious gameplay bugs I've run into. My system is a very stable mainstream configuration that I run quite a few other major releases (Total War series, various sims, etc) on reliably. If it wasn't for the autosave every turn limiting the damage and for the inherent appeal of this game I would already have shelved it. The standard response to posts such as this seems to be 'fill out a proper bug report or we can't help you'. That may be, but this is a production release and I am a customer, NOT a beta tester, and we're not just talking about one or two bugs!.

I hope the good folks at Stardock are paying attention, because their rep is taking a hit with this one. I'm not ready to write them off yet, but before buying another of their products (eg: TA, Sins...) I will definitely wait a good while and check the forums for posts such as this.

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Strange. I found DA, even without patches to be one of the recent releases with comparatively few bugs.

Which gameplay bugs are you talking about?

For graphic glitches at least the debug logfile might be helpful to find out if it's something with your system configuration.

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econundrum1

Join Date 04/2007

+36

It is a bit odd that you have so many problems, I've actually honestly in many hundreds of hours playing DA, DL & now the TA Beta never had the game actually crash on me.

I have seen the invisible ship bug in the TA Beta but actually never had it in DA or DL. Then again I played them on my old machine which was a different configuration so may be that's why, who knows, I'm pretty certain I've heard other people have encountered that bug in DA.

As you say though your post is essentially a rant, you don't actually mention what your configuration is, or what other software your running, you don't include any crash logs, etc.

Regardless of your rights as a customer I can tell you as a programer myself you descriptions of the problems are worthless without the sort of information Stardock ask for when people report bugs they can't really help you, that's why they ask for the information, it's not for fun.

At the very least you should give information about your computers configuration, including hardware, driver versions, memory etc.

Fair enough if you just want to complain I guess you should feel free to do so, but if you actually want fixes for your problems your going to have to give more information.

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I appreciate your responses and respect your opinons, but it's just a rant, leave it at that. I'm a programmer as well, have been by profession for nearly 25 years. The code I write is not entertainment software, and perhaps for that reason users are not inclined to be patient and donate their own time to help me remove defects.

De-bugging (or helping others to de-bug) is something I do at work, not on my leisure time. Issues like updating drivers, ensuring adequate memory, ensuring graphics cards and settings are compatible with the product specs, and generally ensuring the the system configuration is 'supported' (again according to specs) - I have no trouble taking these steps to get a game to work and would not even ask a question or voice a complaint before having taken those steps on my own.

As for posting my specs and debug files of all the issues encountered, it should be clear by now that I'm not going there. I don't feel I should have to do that. That leads precisely into the strategy of using me as part of the free extended beta commnity. If I do that, the authors/producers will have no incentive to do a better job of finishing the next product before rushing it out the door.

Nice to know the game works flawlessly for some. I believe you. The number of bug reports suggests I'm not alone though...

[/end rant, really]

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Yeah, but most of the bug reports are due to driver issues (especially nvidia and / or laptop), quickly solved in the very next patch or very long running bugs like the invisible fleets.

You are of course right, saying "it works for me" isn't a solution (developer myself, I hear that one more often than I care to). But at least you always get a direct and polite response from the programmers themselves.

Try that with a couple of the really bugridden games out there, especially from companies like Atari, UBI or EA. EA would probably flat out ingore any user feedback and then publish the exact same game again with '2009' slapped on the cover.

Or the company that published the infamous 'Battlecruiser' series. I visited the forums purely to see the developer flame and insult customers who had honest questions about the gameplay...

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So you are unwilling to give specifics on what problems you are having (found in debugg.err or via Smart Exception) and you aren't willing to give the computer specs to see if something there may be the culprit?

Without them blindly fixing something that may just fix your problem, how do you expect to get help? If every Nvidia user had an issue with this game, but declined to tell what they had for a video card/driver then how would Stardock go about fixing the Nvidia issue?

Perhaps next time I have a problem with my car, I'll go to a mechanic and bitch on how worthless of a car it is and that it doesn't run. I'll leave without telling them the make/model/year of it and what exactly isn't working and walk away with a huff. That'll get things fixed now won't it?

As a coder for 25 years I'd figure you'd have more sense than this.

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People LOVE games. I like to immerse my self in a good game as much as the next person, and the GC2 series is conceptually great for that. That being the case, some folks will want a game to work so, so, badly that they are willing to work for free to help fix a product they have paid for. Software companies/publishers sometimes fall into the trap of counting on this (or call it short term brilliance on their part since it seems to work). If you put your love for the game aside for a minute though and treat yourself with respect as a consumer this doesn't seem right.

One or two bugs is one thing, but I have seen a LOT. Beat me up for not providing specifics if you want, but I just don't have time to help fix all of these problems (or rather, I choose not to spend MY time that way - I don't owe Stardock anything!). And yes, I already have spent a bit of time typing these posts that could have been spent filing a few bug reports, but this is for a principle, and one that goes for any software manufacturer and any game.

I'm not looking to help Stardock fix the problems I've seen - I am simply suggesting they should have done more work testing this one (either on their own or with the help of people who specifically agreed to be beta testers) before releasing it. Cost factor? Not sure what it would be but I'd have no problem paying $10 more given the # of hours I'd play the game. As it is I'll continue to play DA for awhile, but not as much as I might have. And while I can't say I'll never buy another product from this vendor, the likelihood of it hasn't been helped.

BTW the car analogy, while not bad, doesn't quite hit the mark for two reasons. 1. A car is something you may well need, and have to depend on; a game is not [braces for the onslaught of outraged gaming adicts]. 2. A car is something you have considerably more invested in. Even if it's a lemon (whether because you didn't do your homework before buying or just got unlucky) it's really not something you have the option to just walk away from the way you can with a computer game [dodges snowballs from outraged gaming addicts]. Cheers!

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Imaging if martin luther king did the same: I have a dream....and i'm not gonna tell ya.

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Meh i wish i could delete this.

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The point is that unlike with other companies, everyone on this forum generally tries to help. So far you have not pointed out a single bug that would help us help you.

If you had spent half the time you spent arguing that the game is bugridden (which IMO it isn't) and that you can't be bothered typing up the long list of glitches and bugs, you probably would have a working game right now.

And, honestly, name ONE, just ONE major 'mainstream blockbuster' release (which GC2 isn't, btw) in the last five to ten years that WASN'T subject to extensive patching.

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Don't waste your breath boys, This guy is a troll. My guess is a rival gaming progrmmer trying to start a one man bad mouthing campaign. This post would right at home on many gaming websites where people go to complain and the developers ignor or abuse them.

Notice that he complains about Stardock's greatest strength: Their willingness to listen to our problems and continually improve the game after release. He tries to turn their virtue into a sin. He uses vague discriptions and a single documented problem that is pretty easy to work around. He is not interested in any way in getting the problem fixed, just badmouthing. Stardock has the best and easiest bug reporting system I have ever seen, with a program that automates the process. Having sent many bug reports in the past, I know that it is easier to sent a bug report that to write a rant like he has.

His member number shows that he has been lurking around for a while and should know just how responsive Stardock is to real problems. I'd say that this guy is a fake and we shouls stop feeding the troll!

Kyro, this thread shoulf be marked with the flamer flag, if not deleted.

Scincerely,

Scintor@aol.com

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Troll? Nope, never been accused of that anywhere before. Rival gaming programmer? please, that's a bit rich! Just a customer. The remarks were intended purely as general feedback to Stardock, not to start an inflammatory debate with 3rd parties. I have tried to remain at least courteous and not attack any other forum member and have made it clear all along that this thread is just venting on my part. If Stardock have read this, fine, they can make what they will of it. I think they are a very good outfit that has unfortunately been succumbing to pressure to push the products out the door just a bit quickly of late. That is my OPINION, and I am entitled to it.

If any other forum member has somehow found a way to take personal offence to this thread, then mods, please delete it without further ado. In fact, if anyone from Stardock HAS read this then it has served its purpose and can be deleted - in the interest of public order! I'm out.

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And in my opinion, you, sir, are a troll. It is my opinion, an I am entitled to it as well.

Scincerely,

Scintor@aol.com

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