noob struggling with the 3 sliders + all-x strategy

Hi all,

I just started playing a few days ago. Been reading all the strategy guides, wiki, etc. Too much to absorb, probably only comprehended a third, so please bare with me, I keep trying. I've restarted several times, colonizing about 5 planets, so I'm still new.

I love this game! It totally replaces my BOTF. That is, until I discovered the 3 sliders nonsense that effects all systems, and can't be set on a per-planet basis.

Read stuff like: WWW Link

I keep telling myself I'm missing something, but it looks to me if you specialize planets, you can never fully utilize them. Whats up with that?

I understand the developers are trying to automate things so people don't have to micro-manage things. Unfortunately, for those of us that love to micro-manage, it makes the game seem gimped, unless I just don't understand it yet.

Please help me, what do you set things to?

I'd make a poll if this forum software supported it.

1. Mixed planets, using the classical strategy.
2. Specialized planets, using the all-x strategy.
3. All economy strategy (later in the game).

I would like to specialize planets, but I hate the idea of wasting resources on every planet. It seems the mixed is the only way to not waste resources, and although it does help diversify, it still has it's limitations.

Is there a mod, or is it possible to make one, to make the game work with absolutes, like in BOTF? Or switch the 3 sliders to all 100% (I promise not to cheat), or make the 3 sliders settable on a per-planet basis? (best choice)

BTW, since I'm used to BOTF, I like huge maps with lots and lots of planets, and yes I want to micro-manage each one separately. Also, I just noticed the Star Trek mod, but will hold off until I get a good feel for how to play this game, but it looks awesome!

Thanks for reading

ps: BOTF = Star Trek, Birth of the Federation (old game)

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Well I like the all X strategy as it is capable of getting so much more out of your resources. Having said that, I would recommend against it until you have played through a few games and are really comfortable with the game itself. It really is an expert level strategy, primarily because it requires you to run a very tight ship economically, and it's very easy to capsize your empire without solid control.

I've never seen a mod for the sliders. I don't expect to ever see one either, it's pretty intrinsic to their code/game set up. The original developers goal (he has posted on it. I am, hopefully, summarizing with accuracy!) was to force the player to make broad decisions about the focus of resource spending. The all x methodology is really an approach that they never considered....It took the whole player base several months before anyone even considered it!

PS Loved BOTF. Romulans where my favorite to play. I loved that you could take out a borg cube with nine top of the line ships with no damage due to cloaking. Cardassians my least favorite. The Feds were just too easy.

I used to have this bizarre schedule a few years back where I had to respond to incoming e-mails at weird hours every third week (starting at 2am), but otherwise had no duties at all for the first four hours or so. It was from home....I set up my e-mail box to play the klingon or federation intro from BOTF on incoming e-mails or a connection to work break and just slept until 6am unless it popped off. It was long enough to work as an e-mail alarm clock. Everyone else who did it stayed awake on their turns and stared at their e-mail box doing nothing!

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The problem with a requirement to manage spending on a per planet basis is when playing in galaxies with large numbers of habitable planets. Managing each planet individually in a gigantic/abundant game would be highly tedious. Try playing one and you should see what I mean once you've conquered most of the galaxy. There can be as many as 750 habitable planets.

Spending is an aspect of the game that has received a lot of discussion and criticizm in this forum. Regardless, I doubt the way it's handled is something that's ever going to change in GC2, maybe GC3. The most you're going to be able to do is use the focus on each planet to emphasize a particular area.

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A balanced approach isn't a bad way to go, its just not always the most efficient way to go. The All-X approach limits wasted resources (since the labs or factories are producing at or near 100% of their actual capacity) but you lose out on the other sector (production or research)

The All-Factory is "easier" to use and manage since a non-producing factory on ships or new buildings costs little in maintenance. All-Labs has more potential and strength but is hard to manage if you are not careful due to the high maintenance costs and also the fact that generally you are ALWAYS researching (where as for production you can just stop).

The All-Econ approach takes some time to get up and running (you need to be able to get a starting infrastructure to research and build colony ships until you have a strong enough economy to start just buying everything out). Its not a bad approach to mix with a strong Diplomatic strategy because you could buy out technologies, ships, and even worlds from the AI and its a faster and less intensive micro-management route once it really gets going. In a fashion the top players use an All-Econ approach because their economy is such that they are spending down on infrastructure and ships each turn to get below the Graft Point (20,000BC).

Some players like Purge (who has a very nice detailed AAR that is worth reading) manage to move their sliders depending on circumstances and turns to get the most out of their resources. If you want to see how such a level of micromanagment may work, I strongly suggest reading pieces by him, Wyndstar, or Mumblefratz.

The big thing that I think gets players that like micromanagment is that while you can dictate an individual worlds setup, you really only have a Macro management level of control. All I can suggest is to find ways to it all work for you personally.

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Thank you for those responses, I can see it will take time to grasp the bigger picture, which requires much more play on my part.

I don't like running in the negative economy wise, and I'm not so far, and I *think* I've done right by fast building moral/economy*3/production*x the first 8-10 or so turns, while research is 100% and morale is 100%, then switched to dropping morale to ~60%, and shipyard 100% making my custom colony ships every 4 turns, which is working well, saving my money, and each new colony fast buying moral then slow building economy.

I paused to learn more about this, before I dive too much more deeply into the game on the right? path. I don't like the fact that my research is now zero while pumping out colony ships, but I guess thats the common approach, for my starter position anyways.

I'm still on beginner, so will colonize another dozen or so planets, might have to make a few economy-related starbases to keep me in the black, just to see how it goes.

I do love micro-managing, but 250 planets heh yeah thats a LOT more than on BOTF. I think the most I controlled in that are about 30-40 before winning. All very interesting!

Ka'Pla!

Klingons Rule!

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I don't like running in the negative economy wise

I think you just have to go for it when it comes to running in the red. I'm usually not in the black until after the first game year (year 0). The cash anomolies I come across in the beginning of the game can make or break it for me. The problem is, you just can't do much until populations build and newly colonized planets start making money. You won't get anywhere if you don't build a few buildings and ships pretty quick and that costs money you aren't making. However, once you get "over the hump", things start moving along nicely without a whole lot of economic concern. I actually enjoy this early part of the game quite a bit and get a kick out of running right on the edge. Somtimes I crash and burn, other times I pull it out.

I don't like the fact that my research is now zero while pumping out colony ships

I'm probably working the sliders hardest early game. Initially, I'm balancing research with social production to get a few labs and factories up. Once there, social production shuts down for a time and I balance research with military production. It's common for me to have at least one slider zero'd out for some interval, even two of them. In your case, it sounds like you could use a few more factories before switching tacks. You should be doing *some* research while pumping out colony ships.

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Most of the time early in the game I just get my two original planets and mining bases while cutting all military production and balancing research and social. I tend to go with extremes. It really depends on what my race's starting abilities are, though. My best game was probably when I used my custom race - the "Solecians" - with maxed out research abilities.

I played the game generally normal, with a more or less balanced approach on the sliders and planet space usage. I was just able to make effective ships (due to advanced techs) once I was somewhat up and running and that really seemed to make the difference. Actually I wasn't entirely balanced, now that I think of it, because my research was almost exclusively in the area of warship improvements. I was able to do that because it was a gigantic map game with only 4 other civs, so I had a good amount of planets to work with.

So having said all that, I think it just all depends. Every game is going to be different depending on the galaxy, the number of races, your race's abilities, and more. I suppose there are strategies that work in many situations; however, I'm inclined to say that this is not so with the sliders.

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I played several games using all-X factories and it works, but not noticeably better than balanced. In the early game research is probably a little faster then balanced - late game I found it slower. Now I sometimes run all-x for the first few turns if my homeworld has bonus tiles that make me want to develop it as my manufacturing or research capital but otherwise, I play balanced.

Specializing your colonies is important to get maximum value from projects like power plants and research co-ordination center which add a percentage bonus to your output for that planet - as do your capitals.

I try to make every colony an economy world by building a farm, market center and entertainment network unless there is a good reason not to. By researching xeno farming you get 11 billion taxpayers (more if you have bonus tiles). I'm usually way ahead of the AI in population and revenue.

As you advance the difficulty level, the AI will force you to start developing your military early in the game. A game over the weekend I delayed building warships because I couldn't find a decent manufacturing world and the "good" Altarian's declared war on me before we had even met!

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They were probably paid to war with you then.
It's quite possible to go without any militairy for a long time.
It's a matter of making sure everyone else is too busy to care about your planets.
Don't be afraid to pay other races to go to war with eachother, keep them all occupied with at least 1, maybe 2 wars to worry about. This will buy you considerable time.

As for the sliders. I have tried to do the all X strategy, but it just isn't working for me. Just don't find it worth the effort when compared to an easier-to-manage "balanced strategy". Balanced sliders can still get you through an "Obscene" game, so All-X is not a have-to. I only cut off one slider at the start. The social one. I fast build the first few factories on my Homeworld. Then I set the focus to social so both research and military pay for construction, leaving me with only two sliders to slide back and forth if I want a ship built a turn faster, or want some extra research squeezed out of a turn when a ship is about to finish.
On colonised planets I set the focus to social if I want it to start building, on research if I want it to just sit there.
Later in the game I will set the social production slider back to a value, because that tends to build up planets faster than using the focus.
It used to be the case and as far as I can tell it's still true: if you pay too much for a ship (say you have a military output of 41 on a planet, but the ship it's building only needs 23 to finish) you lose whatever extra you paid (those 18 points in this example) so you're better off temporarely switching those to research and then the next turn, switching back to military production!
"Overpaid" currency in research is automatically spent on the next project in line (Mass Drivers II after Mass Drivers I, Aquatic World Colonisation after Extreme Colonisation), if there is no next project in line (like after the Counter Espionage research) those extra points will be lost... This situation doesn't really occur until midway/late in the game, when you can usually afford that loss. (I tend to forget to watch my research and adjust the sliders.)

Hope it's been of some use.

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