I don't know if it's too powerful - since there's no guarantee that it'll trigger - but it definitely is a potent ability to take. Knocking it down a notch probably wouldn't be a bad idea for the same points as now.

I guess I have to agree that if you can't PLAN to use it. However I think 1pt is too low a cost.

And I do love the new trees even when I hate them. They really define the races better.

Of course it's hard to make a direct comparison as to creativity's power because we are always aware of when creativity triggers, we usually don't keep track of how much time conventional research bonuses save us though. The randomness of creativity and the fact that both research bonuses scale to your empire or your project makes it even more difficult to figure out how good creativity really is.

I think you'd almost have to time some of the tech tree advancements with and without creativity over several games to quantify what creativity is really worth. Knowing the algorithms involved would also help.

The funny thing is, regardless of how powerful the creativity really is, I'd probably still take it over a regular research bonus. It just comes out as being a fun ability that makes for more exciting games just by its randomness.

Creativity is something I took when I played the Drengin exactly because it would, every now and again, give you a really insane boost in tech. I do think the points for it need to be raised a little, maybe to two points or three. Currently, it provides a little too much punch for its cost.

Sometimes, it actually activates directly after you finish your current tech. For example, sometimes I'd be researching something, let's say Slave Canyons, and then, on the turn that I finish the tech, creativity would activate and I'd finish the tech after Slave Canyons instantly! That's a good ten to fifteen weeks of research saved, right there.

The biggest problem with it, I think, is that it's too random. It should give a more concrete bonus than a random chance to complete a tech. Because it's so random, it ends up either being overpowered in the event that it activates a lot, or underpowered if it only activates once or twice.

I once heard a suggestion for it that went something along these lines; the chance of creativity activating scales based on how much tech you've completed. For example, say you're researching Basic Logistics. Let's say it'll take you five weeks to research it. On the first week, when you having gotten any research done on it, creativity will have a 0% chance to activate. However, on the second week, it'll have a higher chance to activate, let's say 10%, just for an example. Creativity then gets a higher and higher chance of working until right before you finish it, when it'll have, say, a 50+% chance of activating. In this way, the randomness can be changed so it still has the flavor of a skill (Which represents an inherently random stroke of brilliance that allows your scientists to make a major breakthrough), yet minimizes the problems with it potentially saving you thousands of weeks of research over a long game, which is extremely imbalanced for a skill that only takes one point.

To summarize: I think Creativity should take 2 or 3 points (Perhaps make different levels of it, like with Morale: Creativity +5% takes 1 point, Creativity +15% takes 2 points, Creativity +25% takes 3 points, just to give an example) and its mechanics should be changed so it has a nonexistent chance of activating during the first quarter or half of a research project, but increase its chance of activating as the tech progresses into its last half and final quarter.

I like it now. At least with the new way it works you get to see some benefit from your point selection. Plus i do not think it is undervalued as in my current game it has triggered a few times but not that often, it does appear to trigger randomly as well.
I look at it as a nice change that can work nicely for you but not something you should rely on to finish a tech for you earlier than planned. Well worth the one point as it is a random trigger. Grats to the Dev's for finally getting Creativity to actually do something constructive.

Exaggeration or not, explain why it should be that good for only one point.



No, it does not. It means that, over thousands and thousands of weeks, you eventually get an average number of successful creativity tech completions that, eventually, the percentage of time it works ends up to be about 25%.

You're thinking of how creativity works the wrong way. 25% chance of working doesn't mean I'm going to get a free tech every fourth turn any more than flipping a coin ten times means that I'll get exactly five heads and five tails every time.

Since you haven't run a test bed to see if it does, in fact, have a 25% chance of working each turn, I suppose we'll just have to take the tooltip at it's word and assume it does give a 25% chance every week of finishing your current tech.



I would suggest using it more often before you assert that it's fine. The inherent problem with creativity is that it is random; it is, at times, far too good for 1 point, and at others barely good enough. The best thing to do is find a way to alter it in such a way that it keeps its flavor while trying to lessen the randomness of it. Doing such a thing would make it far easier to address its value as far as points go.

Which is why it is only worth 1 point.
(sigh)

RANDOM

Main Entry: 1ran·dom
Pronunciation: \ˈran-dəm\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, succession, surge, from Anglo-French randun, from Old French randir to run, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German rinnan to run — more at run
Date: 1561
: a haphazard course
— at random : without definite aim, direction, rule, or method

Random can never be too random.
Anything less would not be truly random.

Ok. Pop quiz: Which would you rather have, +5% bonus to research or Creativity? Yeah. Thought so.



It is overpowered compared to the Research bonus skill. A 25% chance to instantly save yourself tech time every single week is a hell of a deal for one point, especially when you compare it to the Research bonus skills.



Why thank you for enlightening me. Now would you care to respond to my points instead of toying with semantics? You're ignoring what I'm saying; the change I propose adjusts Creativity in such a way that it only applies towards the latter half of a tech, thus making it a little more 'concrete' than it is right now. That'll help adjust the luck factor in such a way as to keep the skill's flavor, yet not make it such a variable factor.

Actually, I was responding to your points.

You are just too stupid to see it.

Maybe +econ is due for a nerf, like the original planet quality bonus in GalCiv 1.

I mean, it is fairly powerful. Of course, unlike PQ bonuses, econ and morale bonuses are scattered throughout the game.

Maybe I played too much with the first GalCiv, where I couldn't tell whether it did anything, but I don't take the 25% at its word. I mean, it might've been a random (low) chance to get 25% of the tech researched in one turn - at least, that's what appeared to be happening when I played a creative civ in Dread Lords the other day. I mean, separate from the anomalies.