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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Components size weirdness

Actual weapon size wrong?

December 23, 2007 3:24:50 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I wanted to find out if I should put Psyonic Beams, Disruptors or Phasors VII on my ships. So I made an Excel sheet, searched the web and crunched some numbers. I the following site that explains the mechanics behind weapon size calculation: https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Miniaturization

With that, I did some calculating. I saw that weapon size is linked to hull size, using the size mod. Actual weapon size has nothing to do with the level of miniaturization. So here's an example.

The Psyonic Beam has a base size of 8 and a size mod of 4%. A medium hull has a size of 48. So the actual size on this hull type would be (8 + (0.04 * 48)), which is 8 + 1.92, which is 9.92. Round it up towards, and you have the actual size, 10. Then I look in the ship designer, and I see that it reports a size of 10.

So I checked it for Disruptors (actual size 6 + 1.92 = 7.92 -> 8), the ship designer reports 7. For Phasors VII it's 7 vs 6.

I then checked the large hull, but that was right as it should be.

So I'm a bit puzzled here. Can anyone clarify this?
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BrennanNL
xNaquada
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #1 December 23, 2007 6:59:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
not quite sure what your saying, but miniaturization does not shrink weapons per-se, it jus adds more hull space to the hull. ie, 20 space+(lets say) 40% miniaturization, and you end up with your medium hulls now having 28space. the weapon sizes are the same, but you can now fit more on your ship.

In short, the components do not srink, the hull size expands.

Hope this helps.
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BrennanNL
Zenicetus
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 December 23, 2007 7:36:07 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Since the size of components and hulls don't actually change, I've always thought of it as reducing the mass and energy drain of components, so more stuff can fit on a standard spec hull size without reducing performance. Doesn't quite fit the word "miniaturization" but it's close enough.

I'm kinda glad the components don't change in size, since the better versions of engines and weapons get smaller as you move down the tree (within each main tech box). Some of them would look pretty silly if they were reduced even further by miniaturization.

"Fear my mighty, yet very tiny, Doom Ray!"

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BrennanNL
LordZarth
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #3 December 23, 2007 8:00:18 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
In in-game terms, Miniaturization is making ship components smaller.

However, it is implemented in the game by making hull size bigger, attaining the same effect.
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 December 24, 2007 4:05:05 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

not quite sure what your saying, but miniaturization does not shrink weapons per-se, it jus adds more hull space to the hull. ie, 20 space+(lets say) 40% miniaturization, and you end up with your medium hulls now having 28space. the weapon sizes are the same, but you can now fit more on your ship.

In short, the components do not srink, the hull size expands.

Hope this helps.


Actually, no, it doesn't help. I know that miniaturization doesn't alter the weapon size, the size mod uses the base size of the hull as the variable weapon size. So I'm not using miniaturization at all in my calculations.
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 December 24, 2007 4:06:16 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That said, anyone else have an idea *why* the sizes differ?
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BrennanNL
Kanil
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #6 December 24, 2007 4:32:31 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That is very strange, especially that they work correctly on larger hulls.

Try some smaller hulls, perhaps, and maybe get another miniturization, and see how it looks with a slightly bigger medium hull?
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BrennanNL
DrGuppie
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 December 24, 2007 8:28:30 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums

I wanted to find out if I should put Psyonic Beams, Disruptors or Phasors VII on my ships. So I made an Excel sheet, searched the web and crunched some numbers. I the following site that explains the mechanics behind weapon size calculation: https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Miniaturization

With that, I did some calculating. I saw that weapon size is linked to hull size, using the size mod. Actual weapon size has nothing to do with the level of miniaturization. So here's an example.

The Psyonic Beam has a base size of 8 and a size mod of 4%. A medium hull has a size of 48. So the actual size on this hull type would be (8 + (0.04 * 48)), which is 8 + 1.92, which is 9.92. Round it up towards, and you have the actual size, 10. Then I look in the ship designer, and I see that it reports a size of 10.

So I checked it for Disruptors (actual size 6 + 1.92 = 7.92 -> 8), the ship designer reports 7. For Phasors VII it's 7 vs 6.

I then checked the large hull, but that was right as it should be.

So I'm a bit puzzled here. Can anyone clarify this?


I can't exactly clarify, but I can offer a theory - the formula has changed, but only slightly It's far too early, and Christmas eve to boot, for me to go try and find the multiplier that works for all of the cases you mentioned, but that'd be my guess.
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 December 24, 2007 8:36:19 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Miniaturization *shouldn't* affect the actual size. That is just a function of the size mod and base hull size. Which are unaffected by miniaturization.

I cheched Pulse Driver I, II and III on a tiny hull. It's weapon sizes are all 1 below what they should be.

So either that Wiki page is wrong, and the size should be round down instead of up. Or something fishy is going on in TA .
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BrennanNL
DrGuppie
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #9 December 24, 2007 8:40:40 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
By the way BrennanNL, where are you getting your figures for the variable size of each component? Going into the XML or do you have a source online? Maybe the source is wrong?

[Edit]

Ok, never mind, you're pulling it from the XML with the right base numbers [why am I doing this instead of holiday stuff?! ] Anyway, so I went and tried it out in Dark Avatar for Disruptors (Disruptors0 in the XML for DA). Base size for medium hull: 48, base size for Disruptors: 6, mod size: 4. So that's 6 + (.04 * 48), which is 7.92 which should round to 8, but in the editor the Disruptors are size 7.

So it isn't just Twilight.
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #10 December 24, 2007 1:41:12 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Cheers . So I'm guessing the 7.92 should be rounded down instead of up...
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BrennanNL
DrGuppie
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #11 December 24, 2007 2:23:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Except that you said it came out right for some hull sizes. If the formula is wrong about which way to round, wouldn't there still be something fishy going on?
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BrennanNL
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #12 January 2, 2008 1:34:23 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
AFAIK they're truncated, not rounded (as is the case with most fractional amounts in the game).
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #13 January 3, 2008 12:16:44 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Rounded being 1,4 becomes 1 and 1,5 becomes 2, then truncated means the biggest whole number? So 1,1 becomes 1 and 1,9 becomes 1?
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BrennanNL
kryo
Join Date 05/2003
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Reply #14 January 3, 2008 12:22:15 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Yes, any fraction is simply dropped.
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BrennanNL
PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #15 January 3, 2008 1:15:59 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Use Psyonic Beam. It's pricier, but has a better smash-for-size rating than Phasors 7 or Disruptors on Medium Hulls. See HERE.
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BrennanNL
BrennanNL
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #16 January 3, 2008 2:20:44 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
True, but Phasors 7 cost less per unit of damage.

Psyonic beam || 0,08000 dmg/bc || 1,33333 dmg/size
Phasors VII || 0,12000 dmg/bc || 1,00000 dmg/size
Doom Ray || 0,14667 dmg/bc || 2,00000 dmg/size

So a Doom Ray is even better (in the beam department).
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