donovanguthrie

Join Date 02/2006

No Alliances possible with tech trading off

So far, in playing the Beta for TA I have never been able to create an alliance with Tech Trading off. Obviously, this is likely because the other races are NOT researching Alliance. I REALLY think this should be a base item researched by all races, like diplomatic translators and that sort of thing. Or at the worst, let it be one tech that I can give away regardless of tech trading being on or off. I don't think having turned Tech Trading off should completely and totally take away any ability on my part to gain a diplomatic victory. Thanks for listening

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I agree 100%, alliances should always be trade-able.

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Or maybe it could be like the universal translator. As long as you have alliances you have the option of proposing them just like only those with universal translators may open race communications.

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I think that they should just be already researched. I mean this is supposed to be farther in the future and races have already made contact with each other. I think Universial Translators, Trading, and Alliances are stupid to have to research, since races have had contact with each other fore at least several years now. I could see having perhaps a custom made race to research them (and even then), but certainly not any of the races that came with the game shouldn't have to research it. Now Majesty, Advance/expert trade, and advanced/expert diplomat I could see having to be researched.

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I agree that you shouldn't be forced to switch tech trading on, to get access to Alliances. But I'm not sure it should be automatic. Maybe the AI could be tweaked to start prioritizing research for alliances if 1) it's already running trade routes, and 2) relations with at least one other race are reaching some threshold value. If you're pushing for an alliance with another race and relations are ramping up high enough, you could basically "force" your target race to research Alliances that way, so they'd have it even if tech trading is off.

I don't think Trade and Universal Translators should be automatic either. If I'm the first to set up trade routes, that's a strategic/economic advantage and I probably won't sell that tech for a while. And selling Communications and Universal Translators is one of the few ways to make a few bc in the early turns, when you first contact other races and minors.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

I never thought of turning tech trading off until the Metaverse crowd made me start thinking about scores. My "natural" strategies are based on aiming for tech superiority, but strong scores are dependent on relatively rapid wins. Turning off tech trading seems to mean that you can gain and maintain tech superiority more easily, perhaps b/c the AIs trade more efficiently amongst themselves than you can hope to trade with them.

If you are playing totally freestyle, I don't see why you'd ever turn off tech trading; it's one of the elements that adds variety to any given map. But, if you are totally committed to high scores, I don't see why you'd be very concerned about alliances b/c they tend to interfere with rapid military victories.

I have no idea where that might leave those of us who think a military win is boring and/or annoying but have somehow become interested in earning strong Metaverse scores.

p.s. I suspect the OP has a point for DL and DA, not just the TA beta. But I'm still a bit confused about whether both parties need the tech to be able to sign the agreement.

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If you are playing totally freestyle, I don't see why you'd ever turn off tech trading

Simple -- I don't like the gameplay with tech trading on; I've hated it in every game I've ever played that incorporated the concept. Trade goods + trade routes are enough trading for me.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

Simple -- I don't like the gameplay with tech trading on; I've hated it in every game I've ever played that incorporated the concept. Trade goods + trade routes are enough trading for me.

I guess I didn't type quite enough right here. I don't do what I'd call "totally freestyle," and I guess what I meant by that phrase was some combo of "go with the defaults" and "play for a maximum score."

I've played most of my games with tech trading on b/c I don't like military wins and being able to give away techs can help out tech-superiority oriented folks like me.

I've always been frustrated by what seems to me to be a greater willingness of AIs to trade amongst themselves than to trade with the "human" player. But I'm a bit more than half sure that the problem is not with how the game models trading so much as how the UI gives a player a rich set of context info & response options.

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When tech trading is off, how about all races have a mega event and gain the alliance tech after a certain amount of turns have based?

Its odd but for me tech trading has always been one of the most interesting concepts in a strategy game, all the way back to MOO2 multiplayer on small maps. A friend sitting next to me would declare war on an easy opponent and all of sudden his face would drop as he realised what technology they now had facing him

. The only trick was to make sure I drew the war out as long as possible and not make things too unbalanced for either opponent.

Fun times, its no less true in Galciv, feeding minor races tech and ships for your proxy wars and cackling evilly.

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I always play with tech trading on, because it increases the options for manipulating other civs. I can throw some lower-end tech to a race in trouble, as a distraction for my main opponent. Options are good, and we can have it either way.... except for this Alliance thing.

The new TA non-trade-able racial techs might help slow down the transfer and "homogenization" of techs so everyone has the same thing. I haven't played the TA beta enough yet, to get a feel for how that's working. Heck, it's hard enough just IDENTIFYING what the unique techs are, with the current UI design.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

When tech trading is off, how about all races have a mega event and gain the alliance tech after a certain amount of turns have based?

This seems like an interesting "fix" idea, and an event like that wouldn't even be particularly "mega." Alliances are not a very advanced tech; I suspect that in terms of research cost, the galactic speed boost event might be worth more than an Alliance Tech for All event, at least if you're already decently along the engine tech path.

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