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Scrinoverlord
Scrinoverlord
Join Date 05/2007
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Capital World---really that vital?

November 13, 2007 8:08:16 PM from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
So I was playing...excuse me, is playing a long, epic game of Dark Avatar that I've been playing since November 1, 2007. I have not gone to war with any other major civilization...until NOW, when the Arceans decided to expand too much into worlds that were well inside my sphere of influence. Their empire is HUGE---They control about 40% of the galaxy wheras I control about 10%...and note this is on the biggest galaxy map.

I thought, "wait, if I behead the snake, the snake's body dies." so I decided to find the Arcean capital planet, Arcea, and after many years of constant warfare with the Arceans (for some reason they LOVE going directly into the heart of Sol and attempting to conquer Mars) I found Arcea. I sent all available ships to assualt the Arcean capital, and after a battle including billions of soldiers on each side, I took their planet. Arcea was around the 20th Arcean planet conquered, and I would think the Arceans would at least sign a peace treaty now that I have their homeworld...wrong. Nothing happened at all. No bonuses, no penalties to anyone, nothing.


SO! My point in all this---is the capital world of a civilization really worth anything, or is it just for show?
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Scrinoverlord
Naota Reign
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #1 November 13, 2007 8:40:25 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
That far into the game it could possibly be considered merely a tourist attraction   

There's usually a good chance that there's a manufacturing/research capital there that is useful, but it certainly won't cripple them in such a large galaxy if you took it.
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Scrinoverlord
Scrinoverlord
Join Date 05/2007
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Reply #2 November 13, 2007 8:43:00 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Say the galaxy was a lot smaller, like Medium. It's fairly early in the game---I assume that still the capital world is nothing but a world with a crown on it...
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drrider
Join Date 12/2006
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Reply #3 November 13, 2007 8:45:11 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Well, you get a Capitol tile equipped planet out of it, with its research, manuafturing, pop cap and, especially, Morale benefits...and they get another capital tile promoted somewhere else . So if you go grab that one...

drrider
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Scrinoverlord
crow_t_robot
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 November 13, 2007 8:52:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Scout for their best planets out there, like class 16 or above. Find the best one and take it!  

Have a fun war  
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Scrinoverlord
TriPp
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #5 November 13, 2007 9:12:48 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Say the galaxy was a lot smaller, like Medium. It's fairly early in the game---I assume that still the capital world is nothing but a world with a crown on it...


Oh i think in that case they sure feel it(i know i would), especially if they would have otherwise had a gifted start(bonus tiles etc).
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Scrinoverlord
Mystikmind
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #6 November 13, 2007 9:14:50 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
In Galciv there is a very, very low 'glass celing' on how strong a planet gets over time. This glass celing keeps a capital planet stuck right where it is while the rest of the empire catches up. Look at coresont (however you spell it) in Starwars, the whole planet is one gigantic city, but in galciv the big glass celing holds down such development. So that means a capital planet in galciv is definately nothing special as you would imagine a capital planet would be.
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Shamgar
Join Date 09/2003
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Reply #7 November 13, 2007 9:19:02 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Historically, think of the Roman Empire. Barbarians overran "the eternal city" of Rome for hundreds of years, while the empire continued to be ruled from Byzantium.

Not comparing you the the barbarians, mind you. Just an example.   
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Scrinoverlord
Skippio
Join Date 06/2003
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Reply #8 November 13, 2007 9:27:33 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
drrider... I'don't think they get a new "capital tile."
I thought, once upon a time, I read somewhere 1 per race.
I can't recall ever capturing a homeworld for another race and then taking the new "homeworld" and seeing a second capital tile for that race. I know I've done that, but don't remember a new capital tile. Maybe I'm wrong.
But I like playing w/ 8 minors, that does give me 8 more capital tiles

Oh, speaking of taking the best planets, something I had noticed in the past week, more like a d'oh moment. With DA, when at war, if you are invading a non-capital planet w/ over 6B in population, use your spy on their farms. Wait 1 turn and invade the planet. The population will drop from whatever it was down to 6b when you invade. A lot easier fighting 6B instead 8B, 10B or more on a planet. Don't know why I did not think of it sooner. Maybe a bit of cheese, but it works.
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Scrinoverlord
DethAdder
Join Date 02/2004
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Reply #9 November 13, 2007 10:37:16 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'm not exactly sure how it works on the captured captital front, but I believe I have kept the captial bonuses on the first one captured. Additional captured capitals will revert back to a normal colony, but sometimes seems to hold the capital bonuses until a reload. I've noticed that due to setting up my build que as I would for a cap. only to have it revert back after loading the game again.
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Scrinoverlord
Thief_of_Souls
Join Date 01/2007
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Reply #10 November 13, 2007 11:07:34 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
It would be interesting if when the capital is taken, you get a moral debuff (yes I have been playing too many rpgs recently coughLotROcough) that starts off bad (the shock of losing their capital) but gets a little better over time, and when you get the capital back, you get rid of the debuff and gain a buff. (note to self, use less rpg terms)
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Scrinoverlord
Starstriker1
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #11 November 13, 2007 11:13:19 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
What would be really interesting is if the capital was completely permanent, and you suffered some kind of penalty for being without a capital. It would make the capital a more strategically interesting planet.
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Scrinoverlord
Mystikmind
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #12 November 14, 2007 12:08:25 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Historically, think of the Roman Empire. Barbarians overran "the eternal city" of Rome for hundreds of years, while the empire continued to be ruled from Byzantium.


That is true, however it is generally considered that the Roman empire was lost with Rome.
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crow_t_robot
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #13 November 14, 2007 12:37:59 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
You could be like some other strategy games. If you conquer the capital you now have control over all of the enemy's planets. Ofcouse this would be terribly unbalancing and would be exploited easily.  
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Scrinoverlord
Feud
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #14 November 14, 2007 2:51:01 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Wile it won't have much effect on the actual game, it is priceless in the metagame.

Remember, this is about leading a civilization! While the AI may not technically care about it, think of the glory you have now brought to your empire! You have driven the enemy from their home planet!

Personally, once I take an enemy home world I never give it up. Even if the position is untenable I'll destroy the planet before I give it back. While the conquering of the planet may be purely symbolic when considered outside of it's actual worth as a planet, it certainly boosts my morale about the given war.


You could be like some other strategy games. If you conquer the capital you now have control over all of the enemy's planets. Ofcouse this would be terribly unbalancing and would be exploited easily.


Luckily for America in the War of 1812 we weren't playing by those rules.
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Zenicetus
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #15 November 14, 2007 3:20:10 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
When I first played the game (GalCiv2, pre-DL), I thought it was odd that the AI doesn't prioritize re-taking a lost home planet. But I guess that just means the enemy is unusually dangerous... willing to make unemotional decisions about the best strategy, and adapt to changing conditions. I like that better than some pre-programmed urge to re-take the home world, that might be manipulated by the player.

As Feud says above, it turns out to be mostly just a role-playing opportunity. I do love subjugating another race's home planet under my boot (claw, whatever), even if it doesn't have any actual impact in the game.


Historically, think of the Roman Empire. Barbarians overran "the eternal city" of Rome for hundreds of years, while the empire continued to be ruled from Byzantium.


That is true, however it is generally considered that the Roman empire was lost with Rome.


Depends on what you call the Roman empire. It was huge, and the Eastern half lasted for another thousand years, until the fall of Constantinople.

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Scrinoverlord
PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #16 November 14, 2007 11:28:57 AM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Homeworlds do have a use. The Civilization Capital building generates 24 TP of research, 24 MP of manufacturing, a 20% Influence Boost, a 40% Morale Boost and food for 16 Billion people, for no maintainance. That's enormous compared to the Initial Colony building which generates 10 TP of research, 16 MP of manufacturing, 5% Morale, and food for only 6 Billion people, costing 12 bc of maintainance.

So that means you can use farm spies or morale spies to invade a colony with relative ease compared to a homeworld which will be happier and have at least 1600 troop legions defending it. If only Civ Capitals randomly spawned on bonus tiles, than homeworlds would have their power felt, a bit more at least.

Also, when you play a game with Stars, Planets, and Habitable Planets set to Rare, you only get two or three planets until you conquer some more - and until you do so, your homeworld will most likely be your best planet.

When you capture another race's homeworld, they DO NOT get a new Civilization Capital building on another planet - they merely shift that little crown symbol to a different planet. The captor of a homeworld, however, does keep the benefits of the Civ Capital building. It makes Minor Races juicy targets.
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Scrinoverlord
Mystikmind
Join Date 06/2004
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Reply #17 November 14, 2007 4:33:16 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Luckily for America in the War of 1812 we weren't playing by those rules.


Do the Jaggard knife dudes get a capital?

Also Later on, i bet General Lee would have taken total victory if he got Washington?
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Scrinoverlord
TwAgIssmuDe
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #18 November 15, 2007 12:43:46 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I usualy conquer their best quality planets first, conquering the capital depends if it lies in the top class planets that given civ has. Otherwise I just see a capital planet as a symbolic planet with some bonuses here and there..
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Scrinoverlord
NeuralTech
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #19 November 15, 2007 12:57:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Homeworlds do have a use. The Civilization Capital building generates 24 TP of research, 24 MP of manufacturing, a 20% Influence Boost, a 40% Morale Boost and food for 16 Billion people, for no maintainance. That's enormous compared to the Initial Colony building which generates 10 TP of research, 16 MP of manufacturing, 5% Morale, and food for only 6 Billion people, costing 12 bc of maintainance.

So that means you can use farm spies or morale spies to invade a colony with relative ease compared to a homeworld which will be happier and have at least 1600 troop legions defending it. If only Civ Capitals randomly spawned on bonus tiles, than homeworlds would have their power felt, a bit more at least.

Also, when you play a game with Stars, Planets, and Habitable Planets set to Rare, you only get two or three planets until you conquer some more - and until you do so, your homeworld will most likely be your best planet.

When you capture another race's homeworld, they DO NOT get a new Civilization Capital building on another planet - they merely shift that little crown symbol to a different planet. The captor of a homeworld, however, does keep the benefits of the Civ Capital building. It makes Minor Races juicy targets.



So they DO count for something! good to know
thks for putting it in perspective
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foxthree
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #20 November 15, 2007 1:36:13 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums
well if this helps any in my game after I taking out a copule of minor races one apeared out of nowhere and instantly conquerd my homeworld without a fight.Of course I was very madd but still nothing happend no bonuses or anything like that.And it took me 4 or 5 trys to get my homeowrld back.So this proves the point that your homeworld not really that important.I hopes this help any.
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Scrinoverlord
Eidolon1032
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #21 November 15, 2007 1:46:51 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Maybe they count something economically, but in my opinion they should be much more important. Just think that a Capital holds the entire government structures: without them, a country (or star empire, in this case) is in chaos. Just think about WWII: if German troops have entered in Moscow, the USSR would have collapsed. It's true that nowadays there are plans to maintain the main government structures operative even if a capital is destroyed, but the loss of your capital world should at least have, as already said in this thread, a strong negative impact on your morale.
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Scrinoverlord
xNaquada
Join Date 10/2007
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Reply #22 November 15, 2007 2:32:04 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Offer the captial planet back as part of the peace treaty, chacnes are they'll take it.
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Scrinoverlord
mentor07825
Join Date 08/2006
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Reply #23 November 15, 2007 2:41:30 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
I'd have to agree. The only good thing I see in a Capital World is an alright planet level and possibly a hole in my coffers. That's the only thing I see in an economic planet.
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Scrinoverlord
Aluroon
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #24 November 15, 2007 3:06:55 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Perhaps as you upgrade your government your Capital should get better? Or maybe you should loose your Advanced Government bonus's without your capital?
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Scrinoverlord
RisingLegend
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #25 November 15, 2007 4:21:28 PM
from GalCiv II ForumsGalCiv II Forums
Luckily for America in the War of 1812 we weren't playing by those rules.


Also Later on, i bet General Lee would have taken total victory if he got Washington?


Didn't General Lee fight in the civil war? I thought the war of 1812 was something totally different...  
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