spheresus

Join Date 03/2006

What abilities you can't do with out

When I play an open sand box game I use a custom race I created, I simply call Android. At first I gave them the Super Trader ability and it was a blessing. Early and mid games and most often till end games in smaller map sizes my trade income was the largest income. The Super Trader really helps with giving you lots of money very early in the game. I would find that most of my game if it wasn't for the income coming from trade I would be in the red.

Then I read in these forums on how trading is less and less important in later stages of a game. So I learned to play with out it and doing quite well. I beef up my economy and learn to specialize economy planets to generate cash for me. With that now I use the Super Diplomat skill. It is so helpful negotiating especially when it comes to trading and purchasing technologies. I like to play on the harder difficulties like masochist and obscene and I think it's impossible to match my AI opponents technology gains so I need to use my large cash reserves to buy technologies. Minor races play an important role here as they usually are the best partners to trade tech with. I think I can safely say I am hooked with the Super Diplomat skill.

For my other races bonuses I use the Speed +2, Manufacturing bonus of +50 with some other little bonuses here and there. I can't seem to do with out those two important bonuses. The Speed +2 I find to be so crucial as first it gives you and advantage for the initial colony and resources rush, even on the higher difficulty levels I manage to grab more planets then my opponents thanks to Speed +2. I also see Speed +2 as default engines on my ships, but engines that don't take up space or cost money to include. Not only can I build warships that are innately faster then my opponents I will have more room for weapons and armor and save on building costs, so it's win win all around. Only gripe I have is that Speed +2 is 8 points which takes a little over half my bonus points.. I guess with such a powerful bonus any thing less and it would be broken.

The Manufacturing bonus is a new bonus I can't live with out. This bonus helps with the initial rush for colony and construction ships but that's not all. In mid and late game this bonus helps so much. I can pump out Warships faster then ever and I can't say how nice it is to be pumping out Construction ships like they where candy. I find it easy to use construction ships to build bases and improve existing bases, they flow like water. Speed +2 and Manufacturing +50 are bonuses I don't see myself giving up any time soon.

What about the rest of you, what are your skills and bonuses you come to love and rely on? I would like to especially hear about people who don't used the Speed +2 or Manufacturing +50 but can still beat this game on masochist and beyond.

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

It depends on what race I play. I have a fav custom race I call Aureals (after Oblivion Golden Saints) their superwarriors, with a military ability of 50. I like espionage with the Krynn, diplomacy with the Terrans, tech research with the Altairans, etc. It just depends. My games are on a small DA map with 8 AI opponents - eliminates the rush phase and focuses on other aspects. Makes diplomacy and tech more important. I also like to rachet down tech research to very slow. I have rare stars, abundant anomalies, common planets, tight clusters. I adjust all the AI opponents so they get max cpu, 10% economy, intelligent, and Tech trading is disabled. Makes for a very different game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Since I always play with a custom race I try to mix my abilities up from time to time but I ALWAYS use the max economy and production bonuses and when possible throw the luck ability in as well. Time for some changes though as wins are still a 'little difficult'. That's the beauty of this game though... it's replay value.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Economy and Morale. Crank up the taxes and hear their joyful cheering

Successfully updated karma reason!

Morale is a huge bonus if you having trouble with cash because it allows for a higher tax rate while keeping approval at good levels, but I agree the speed is awesome. Normally I will use just the +1 bonus in speed, it still allows you to navigate much faster at the early rush stage without spending 8 points. And one of the races gets a speed bonus built in also, so you can really explore quickly with that combo (Torians?).

Successfully updated karma reason!

And one of the races gets a speed bonus built in also, so you can really explore quickly with that combo (Torians?).

Actually, only the Pirates! get Speed 10.

BTW, I'm not sure if all the sector vs parsec issue is being dealt with correctly in the game. 1 sct = 15 pc, not 10. This may cause confusion in the Range and Speed abilities. I know there are a few QA issues with it, mainly incorrect UI displays, but could this be a problem with gameplay? Can't check right now.

Successfully updated karma reason!

There are no abilities I can't live without--I've played without all of them at some point--but some abilities are better than others. I have a strong tendency to take +30 economy, +50 military, +10 morale, and luck; and just recently this forum has helped show me how important +2 speed is. But it's always good to switch around all your abilities even if it means a more difficult game, just to check out all the different options and different gameplays you can do.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I always max my population growth. the extra economy and unlimited soldiars is very very nice...

Successfully updated karma reason!

I sometimes think about removing the Speed +2 so I can get 8 bonus points to spend elsewhere, the Military +50 I would keep. But giving up Speed +2 is like downgrading from broadband to dial up.. I just can't do it lol. I think in a future game I will do it but it will be tough for me. The bonuses are fun and add so much to the game with out cheaping it. One of the best implementations for the game.

Currently I play small maps on Masochist against 2 AI. The idea here is I want to learn to beat the AI's on this small map so I can graduate straight to Gigantic. I have played Gigantic games before but never to completion. When I master the Masochist difficulty I plan on doing so. My settings for Gigantic goes like this..

7 Ai races
6 Minor races
Stars common
Planets common
Asteroids abundent
Life worlds rare
Anomolies uncommon
Research very slow
Star Pattern tight clusters

I do this with some goals in mind. One is the realism part. I think in the Universe planets are very common most stars have them, asteroids are in every system, life bearing worlds are rare since conditions for them are exacting, and stars are clumped together where there are islands and continent of stars with oceans of emptiness. In one of my gigantic games it was so cool how the star map was. There was like 4 islands of stars with 1 island of stars so far away from every thing else, that island of stars was where I started out and I had it all to my self. I had to build bases in the middle of the great emptiness so my ships can travel to the other islands and to the main continenet of stars. It felt like I was a island nation in the Civilzation games like England or Japan, it was cool.

Successfully updated karma reason!

But it's always good to switch around all your abilities even if it means a more difficult game, just to check out all the different options and different gameplays you can do.

That's pretty much the same argument used for SAs and every other unbalanced feature - an excuse really. Abilities aren't supposed to be related to difficulty level, for that you have specific settings. They enhance a particular aspect of the game, and if they don't do that well, what's the point?
The Speed +2 bonus is ludicrous IMO, with the engine nerfing, and the decreased size of modules. A bit like miniaturization (and other abilities), it has a doubling effect with the bonuses gained through researching certain techs.

This may cause confusion in the Range and Speed abilities.

I meant Range and Sensor Range. Speed has this strange thing in the techtree where the ability reads Speed +10 but you really get +1.

Successfully updated karma reason!

That's pretty much the same argument used for SAs and every other unbalanced feature - an excuse really.

I'm not making any excuses. Of course it's better if the abilities are all priced right and balanced. But--the game is what it is, make the best of it.

Successfully updated karma reason!

I'm not making any excuses.

I wasn't implying you were. Sorry if it came out that way.

The Iconians do get shafted, with their 7 customization pts. They are not able to choose the Speed +2 and PQ +20% bonuses...

Successfully updated karma reason!

Like tetleytea, I have played with many combinations and I don't think that any bonus is really indispensible. I think you should change your play style to maximize the bonuses you take. If you want to be a military empire, +30% influence doesn't help as much as a speed bonus perhaps, but it can help a lot if you are not looking to invade.

That being said, the 1 point for a +10% morale I almost always take no matter what other combination of abilities I choose, custom or stock race. It just has such a high value for the point cost, and I almost always find myself able to spare a point (except with Iconians, which for me is the hardest race to play as by far)

For my play style - I can tell you what I think is the absolutely hardest setup to win with in the game: Iconians on suicidal, who take the good alignment, and choose for bonuses: +25% creativity, +25% courage, +1 trade route, +2 sensor range. I have never managed to win with this combination yet.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Aw come on, that +2 sensor range is too good. Put those points into Repair instead.

I'm always dying to spend AP on Repair. Don't you enjoy that play style where you go around with Large Hulled ships taking damage just so you can take advantage of that Repair bonus?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Fair enough, trading the +2 sensor range (which might help with the colony rush) for a +40% repair rate would almost certainly be even harder.

Has anyone ever managed to do this?
Suicidal
Iconians
Good Alignment
w/ Creativity, Courage, +1 Trade route, +40% repair rate?

If you can do it, my hat is off to you, you are a much better player than me. I've tried my reply#12 setup four times now and got creamed every time. Does anyone think there is a worse combination to try and win with?

Successfully updated karma reason!

Well, you could just not spend the points at all....

Personally, I have taken points in economics every game for a while now. I think it's the single most useful place to take points on the large maps...The reason is that the biggest challenge of the game for me on the gig maps is reaching the point where new colonies don't bury me in negative credits. Once I'm over that hump, the game gets much easier. Plus economics help out for the whole game.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Like tetleytea, I have played with many combinations and I don't think that any bonus is really indispensible.

The point is not really being INdispensable, but quite the opposite, some are just better than others hands down, whatever strategy you choose - so some are actually dispensable.

I think you should change your play style to maximize the bonuses you take.

Why would I choose Trade or Trade Routes over Economics, even playing say a Korx trader? I'll get the bonuses from the techtree anyways, and the early Economics bonus will be more helpful.

If you want to be a military empire, +30% influence doesn't help as much as a speed bonus perhaps, but it can help a lot if you are not looking to invade.

But a speed bonus will be also very helpful (if not more, colonization phase) than an influence bonus (which you can get later on with research) even if playing an influence game.

It just has such a high value for the point cost, and I almost always find myself able to spare a point

Which is another issue. Look at all the 1 pt bonuses and see if there's even a challenge in the choice. They're not balanced/costed properly.

+25% creativity, +25% courage, +1 trade route,

That's what I was talking about. Garbage, really. If you need to make the game harder, you can always choose NOT to allocate the customization points - the end result will not be much different.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Oh, well I agree the game is not balanced, that is not everything is of equal value of power. The races are not balanced, the alignments are not balanced, the ability point powers are not balanced, the super abilities are not balanced - heck, even the different AI approaches are not balanced. Some things are just plain better than others.

However, I think the lack of balance leads to variety. Some things I wish were more balanced than they are - alignments for instance, while some things I enjoy not being of equal value - super abilities for instance. The difference for me is that I can turn super abilities off, but I can't turn alignment off.

I don't know that anyone that plays this game for a while really thought that these things were balanced. I didn't even get the impression that the devs thought they were balanced.

Successfully updated karma reason!

However, I think the lack of balance leads to variety.

As much variety as if they were balanced. Just not as balanced

while some things I enjoy not being of equal value - super abilities for instance.

Why? If they were balanced, wouldn't it be more interesting? The "challenge" argument? Again, wouldn't they be more interesting if they were actually *all* useful?

The difference for me is that I can turn super abilities off,

Which leads to even more unbalancing.

I don't know that anyone that plays this game for a while really thought that these things were balanced. I didn't even get the impression that the devs thought they were balanced.

Just by looking at these things you *know* they can't be balanced. Now, where were the testers?!

Successfully updated karma reason!

Why? If they were balanced, wouldn't it be more interesting?

Being unbalanced means that there is more of a challenge to try and win with those abilities/tactics/races. There are are some races and abilities that just dominate and are easy to win with. If everything was balanced, everything would be easy to win with.

For instance, I wish I was good enough to win with the Iconanian scenario I described above. It is total "garbage", as you would say. If they were better, it would be less of a challenge. It forces me to try and figure out how to become a better player.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Just by looking at these things you *know* they can't be balanced. Now, where were the testers?!

Players have left tons and tons of feedback throughout the betas--sometimes conflicting--but somehow that hasn't made it to the devs. It's like you release a game to the public which is not balanced--and that's fine. Several commercial and public domain games alike have been unbalanced but they're still fun. Warlords II, Warlords:Battlecry, and Nethack come to mind. But at some point, you've got to go back and tie all the loose ends. That has not happened.

It may well be that Stardock is short on manpower & resources, but this stuff is easy. It doesn't take a M.S. in Computer Science + 5 years' experience in C++ to have a play tester go through and assign more reasonable point values to the abilities. Any high school sophomore who grew up playing Playstation could do that.

Successfully updated karma reason!

If you want to be a military empire, +30% influence doesn't help as much as a speed bonus perhaps, but it can help a lot if you are not looking to invade.

But a speed bonus will be also very helpful (if not more, colonization phase) than an influence bonus (which you can get later on with research) even if playing an influence game.

Not necessarily either. I recently played a couple of games where I was trying to win with an influence victory on turn 58, they very first turn where you are eligible to win with this victory type. I took +30% influence with the pacifist party. +2 speed would not have been as good to me in that situation. Some powers are more situational, but are more useful in specific situations.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Somewhere around here someone (I think Brad?) from Stardock commented on this before, in particular with regards to the super-abilities. The goal wasn't make it balanced it, it was to make it fun.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Being unbalanced means that there is more of a challenge to try and win with those abilities/tactics/races.

I'm sure you read what I wrote right after that part:

The "challenge" argument? Again, wouldn't they be more interesting if they were actually *all* useful?

Challenge comes from difficulty levels, not unbalanced features. I said this already somewhere. This game seems to hold its flaws on this kind of argument. This argument is also not valid because this way you can't play those abilities/races/tactics in a *balanced* way. If they were balanced, you could play them either way, just by setting difficulty higher. So I don't see how your point holds true.

If everything was balanced, everything would be easy to win with.

Because the difficulty levels are not properly set? And the AI doesn't help? You can't really make an argument out of a glaring flaw.

It is total "garbage", as you would say.

Wow! I said that some of the abilities are garbage - as in, they're there for the numbers alone. I didn't classify the setting you mentioned as garbage. it uses the crappiest abilities, but that was the point.

If they were better, it would be less of a challenge. It forces me to try and figure out how to become a better player.

Play without bonuses, as mentioned above. Or less bonuses. You have that choice. What you can't choose is to play with balanced abilities, and that is serious.

Players have left tons and tons of feedback throughout the betas--sometimes conflicting--but somehow that hasn't made it to the devs.

Yep, which is somewhat inconsistent with what's advertised.
(I meant *their* testers BTW)

It may well be that Stardock is short on manpower & resources, but this stuff is easy.

That's what intrigues me the most. Everything's unbalanced, but little is done to fix that. More, whatever is done seems to be done casually, and usually is horrible. The cost of projects, the cost of components, there isn't a standard. Easy to fix, just by comparing values you can pretty much balance stuff. That doesn't seem to be done at all though. Sure, you can mod most of it, but that's not an answer, is it?
I can understand that they're probably working on the new game, but if that means this game gets shafted, that's very bad. Because it was released in an incomplete state (which for me is bad enough), with promises of constant improvement. But not even the really bad bugs seem to be fixed.

I took +30% influence with the pacifist party. +2 speed would not have been as good to me in that situation.

Well, it could help you colonize more planets, which are a source of influence. Also useful for transports (invasion), and constructors (remote influence starbases).

The goal wasn't make it balanced it, it was to make it fun.

Well, why wouldn't he say that?! But again, balanced SAs would be much more useful, hence much more fun. So I don't quite understand that argument. What's the fun in the Krynn SA for example?!

Successfully updated karma reason!

The abilities all depend on setting. In my experiance the smaller the map the more useful the speed ability is. The more opponents the more useful diplomacy is. The few the planets the more useful trade is.

I play with the speed bonus on every size except gigantic, the colony rush is just so long that spending a few extra turns to build Colony Ships on cargo hulls isn't a big deal. Plus I need all the economic help I can get so I can grow as fast and large as possible.

Successfully updated karma reason!

OK, I will say it. It isn't just the worst abilities, it is the worst race, the worst alignment. Heck, take the mercantile political party to try and go for a clean sweep.

If everything was balanced, everything would be easy to win with.

Because the difficulty levels are not properly set? And the AI doesn't help?

Well, I play on the highest difficulty there is. It is child's play to win with the Korath. I don't even really need to pay attention to what I'm doing. I struggle to do anything with the Iconians on the exact same map settings. The difficulty setting does not up the challenge for me with the Korath, they are so good they are easy at every level. The difficulty setting does effect me with the weaker races.

And the AI does not help. It doesn't adjust to different play styles well, IME. The Iconian AI doesn't make it any better when the AI has to try and struggle out of its ridiculously underpowered abilities. The Korath AI rules and does well, but a lot of that is natural abilities. The Iconian AI struggles unless it gets lucky with a good set of worlds early.

But this is still variety, which is arguably fun. I know I can ignore the Iconians as a threat in almost every game, because they suck. I know I need to deal with the Korath early because they will become a legitimate threat.

And some are a combination. I can pull off unreal combinations when playing AS the Torians. The Torian AI, like the Iconians, is only ever competitive if it gets lucky in its starting location.

But starting locations add variety as well. And because you have different balance between the races, it can be interesting to watch the more powerful Korath struggle with just a few worlds to fight off the Torians when the Torians get lucky and have dozens of worlds. If the races were all perfectly balanced, the one with the most worlds would always win.

My opinion, anyway.

Successfully updated karma reason!