BTW, I do believe in God and in Jesus. However, I believe some idiot King hundreds of years ago threw in the Pagan concept of a firey Hell to scare people to side with God.

(Citizen)Stanley Tarrant

deep breaths dude and cut back on the caffine

all i want is people to think for themselves, not just go this is how it is and my book case and some cunning people who figured out a massive corporate tax dodge agree with it!

a bit of positive freedom rather than the accepted negative freedom! hurrah for wikipedia!

and if all else fails, go find babycage.net and lock up your kids, they'll turn out really weird but at least they'll be safe!

I do hope I can inject my own viewpoints into this

I find that addiction has become watered down tremendously so it can be used for anything; I honestly can say you can tell anyone has an addiction to whatever.

I also find that we tend to separate things into good and evil in our subconscious, video games tend to fall into evil here so therefore it gets more flak for people when something bad happens or tend to associate bad things with it.

Also I would like to give you some examples: I'm sure you all heard of suicides or murders caused by video games and I'm sure the great majority would soon point out that it was the video game's fault, but I would also like to point out that there have been a case where a mother killed all of her children because she believed that they would go to hell if they grew up and I'm sure you would all say that the mother is just a nut.

Anything can be used for bad as well as good, a few life saving and very useful drugs actually derived from most banned and illegal street drugs, isn't music just another way to express ourselves and instead of saying that the music is just another way to inject messages into our minds maybe we should hear what they're really listening and figure out that there could be a deeper problem to it.

Also I find that people would love to point out their problems all on one thing, video games are just of a couple of targets for their scapegoating.

Also the people who bash about video games really don't understand much about them, they can't see beyond the pictures and violence to learn that there is far more beyond what can be scratched at the surface; a prime example would be GalCiv 2 actually: if my parents walked up to me at anytime and saw me playing they would think I was just wasting my time moving ships and playing with numbers and have no clue while they didn't know I was working on building a massive trade fleet to increase my economy, pondering whether to research defenses or weapons, considering offing the Drengin already by taking over their only planet, pondering how to take down an empire with twice my military value and exploiting the rules to my advantage and countless others.

Well that's all I have to say, if someone could uncover a shard of reason in my cacophonous babble then I would feel accomplished

Yeah, I think the original poster is making a few logical leaps to get to his ultimate conclusion.

First, addiction is something which causes the addict distress. There comes a point where you are being harmed, you realize you are being harmed, you want to stop so you are not being harmed, and yet you can't stop. I know, kind of a clinical definition, but think about what it is saying. Perhaps under this definition a hedonist could never become an addict... perhaps. People who realize that games are ruining their life, and yet still can't stop playing to gain "one more level" need to seek help. These people are, however, exceedingly rare.

Second, not all of life needs to be spent doing something constructive. Or something social. If most of your life is spent doing something social, then a little "me" time is a good thing. We all need a break. We all need to relax.

If your game playing is causing your wife distress, then perhaps you want to stop for her sake. That doesn't make games bad in and of themselves, it means it might be a detriment to your specific relationship. In my experience, guys go for gamer chicks less because the girls appreciate "fake" accomplishments, and more because it is a shared hobby which they can both be happy spending time together doing. Much like outdoorsmen like finding "camper chicks". Or sports nuts like finding "sports chicks".

Games can be both addictive and an anti social activity. Anti-social isn't necessarily a bad thing though. And addicts are really quite rare. The original posters conclusion that he needs to spend more time on the ministry or God sounds like a personal revelation, and not one with a terrible amount of relevance to the rest of us.

Oh here is just some additional info, an article posted today on msn health regarding video games can actually be good for you...


Gaming's Health Benefits

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Far from a frivolous waste of time, games, some studies say, can be good for us.
From Forbes.com

Find More

10 Ways to Recharge at Work
Our Most Common Fears
Are You An Unhealthy Gambler?
5 Most Expensive Addictions
Handling Workplace Addictions

They can increase aggressive behavior, encourage the kind of sedentary lifestyle that causes obesity and even desensitize chronic users to violence.

Medical researchers have given us plenty of reasons to limit the amount of time we spend attached to video game consoles.

In the past couple of years, however, a handful of experts have produced studies showing that some games not only aren't harmful, they might stealthily teach us useful skills in working with technology, improve our vision and even help people manage pain.

One study by psychologists at the University of Rochester found that players actually derive a sense of achievement, freedom and social connectedness from games.

"Video games are not a frivolous expenditure of your time," says Dr. James Rosser Jr., director of Beth Israel Medical Center's Advanced Medical Technology Institute and a gamer since the advent of Pong in the early '70s. "They have an upside if properly utilized."

In Pictures: Best Selling Video Games of 2006

Surgical Savvy

Rosser set out to prove there's more to the hobby than fun by looking at the correlation between gaming and the laparoscopic surgical skills of 21 surgical residents and 12 surgeons during a simulated surgery skills course. In laparoscopy, surgeons insert a viewing tube with a camera via a small incision to examine organs on a video monitor. They can insert instruments through other incisions to perform procedures.

The study's results would make any gamer smile.

Are you an unhealthy gambler? Find out why March Madness may take a toll not only on your wallet but on your well-being as well.
Current players made 32% fewer errors, were 24% faster and scored 26% better overall than their nonplayer colleagues, according to the paper published in February's Archives of Surgery. But surgeons who'd played games in the past for more than three hours a week came out on top. They made 37% fewer errors, were 27% faster and scored 42% better overall than those who'd never played.

"That opened up a new door," Rosser says. "We could start training people at a very young age with video games, not just for surgery, but engineering [and] lab scientists doing gene therapy. It can all be positively affected by past video game play."

Not all games are created equal, of course. Perpetual motion games, in which players are constantly making adjustments and have to target certain pathways, work best, Rosser says.

Vision Quest

Beyond the O.R., researchers are finding games have other health benefits.

Another University of Rochester study has shown people who played action video games a few hours a day for a month improved their results in a visual acuity test regularly used in ophthalmology clinics by about 20%. Essentially, gaming may improve your ability to read a standard eye chart.

Ultimate Distraction

Work by Bryan Raudenbush, associate professor of psychology at Wheeling Jesuit University, also suggests that sports and fighting video games can produce a dramatic level of pain distraction.

In effect, the pull that makes it nearly impossible for parents to get their kids to put down a game and come to dinner can be used to take people's minds off pain during physical therapy sessions or dental work. It could also be ideal for chemotherapy patients or other hospital situations.

Raudenbush had participants play video games with a one-handed controller and place their other hands in water circulating at 3 degrees Celsius. Even after controlling for variables such as players' competitiveness, which could cause them to want to keep playing, sports and fighting games kept people distracted and going the longest.

Raudenbush likens the games' effect to that of meditating.

"If your attention is pulled somewhere else, you don't focus on that pain," he says.

So instead of feeling guilty for all those hours you've been logging with your Wii, consider the possible benefits. Rosser thinks research will show many more in the future.

"This is only the beginning," he says.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They are just mainly talking about console games. The thing is, computer games tend to be much deeper, as in GalCiv2. The big strategy games (galciv2, civ4 for example)make you think and certainly computer games as more educational. An example is that new game "Making History the calm & the storm". It is a ww2 strategy game similar to hearts of iron and it is being used in classrooms.

Judging by the replies and interaaction generated by the OP, I think we can at least say that computer games *may* be a catalyst for community and social interaction!

Many good points have been made, but let me speak to the OP regarding his concern for balancing "fun" with the need for ministry. I am a pastor of a very active church, and have given my life to serve Christ and my fellow man. I also have a somewhat "obsessive" personality, in that I really get into things that I enjoy. One of those things is playing strategy games. Before PC games, I would play the Avalon Hill strategy board games (anyone here remember them?) If I couldn't find a partner, I would play them "solitaire!" Thankfully, I found a pastor friend who shared my love of these games.

Anyway, I do not believe that fun and relaxation are in conflict with fulfilling one's call and leading a productive life. In fact, I would argue that such relaxation, in proper balance, makes one more productive overall. Didn't the Lord himself set the principle for us in the Creation, where we are told that He "rested" on the 7th day? And even our Lord Jesus, we are told, often led His disciples to "come apart to a quiet place" away from the demands of their ministry. (As one older pastor once advised me, "You need to 'come apart' to relax, or you will 'fall apart.')

I love my life's work. In fact, I would say that I have "fun" 24/7! But sometimes I come home from a stressful day of dealing with people's pain and grief and confusion and weakness and ignorance and whatever, and I say to my wife "I've got to go blow something up!" ... and she knows what that means. I head to my PC and take on the Drengin hoards!

Despite the shrill and superficial responses of a few in this thread ("Methinks the lady doth protest too much!"), I admire your concern to find balance and proper focus in your life, and your courage in putting it out in such a public forum. I hope that what I have said can be counted with the many thoughtful and helpful replies you have already received.

BTW, do you always play as "Good"? I try to, but sometimes ...

whoa (or here he goes again?)

science is always getting questioned, find me one person who says "know what guys that cloning and GM is a fantastic idea, roll it out and we can all chow down right now"

or maybe when hawkings says "errr maybe my idea was a bit wrong" you can see theroy being revised and updated and challenged because it is VITAL TO HUMAN SURVIVAL THAT PEOPLE STOP CLINGING TO THIER CRADELS, PRENTENDING THEY'LL LIVE FOREVER AND MOVE FORWARD!!!!!! folks your gonna snuff it and the only way you'll live on is if you do something hstoric and get remembered for it. nobody, nobody is gona be sitting on a cloud playing a harp for the rest of eternity.

the whole point with science is that it is vital to question it and develop it to move on. All the sciences, look at the mess in Russia and iraq cause wall street and the us executive didn't question thier 30 years out of date economic theory, my science when will they get "shock therapy" is a disaster find a better solution!

find me a religious who says "you know what we need to strip stuff out the bible and try again, revise the lot cause its not really working"

not gonna happen

I can see the challenge to darwin, its a theroy, i get it, but its a sensible theroy, better than "we got knocked togethoer by a random alien watch maker" but our understanding is not perfect. A lack of perfect understanding does not preclude it form being true. (depressingly this statement could go either way)

what i cannot abide is folk telling me the world is 6 thousand years old? what is that about? have you never seen jurassic park? land before time? seriously if you think your god runs round with a shovel burying things and muttering "now we'll see who believes in me" you need to get down the shrink pronto!

...... i should probably go lay down for a bit now? yes? okay.

maddybadger: Well, I'm not very convinced by emotional arguments, hyperboles, and using Hollywood movies as a basis for science. Furthermore, I doubt the moderators want a lengthly discussion on religion, so I'm not going to pursue the matter further. I've said what I think, and I stand by it.

Um, who's saying the world is 6,000 years old?

Please teach me how to pull information out of thin air.

Religion should be about god, not whatever lifestyle choices you make.

If there is a god worthy of the name it knows everyone and everything inside out. You can't justify yourself to such a being, you can only be yourself.

You can't talk about "what god wants me to do".

So, apparently you apply your own morals to the Bible and use that to judge it for yourself. This assumes, of course, that your morals are an adequate gauge for measuring the morality of the Bible. The biggest problem here isn't that the Bible is a bad book - the problem is that it teaches a different philosophy than you do, and you are uncomfortable with the philosophy it teaches.

This is also an appeal to outrage - you hope that by only looking at the "worst" parts of the Bible, you can discredit the religion as a whole.



So far, you've barely shown that you understand Christianity, other than a common stereotype. Your stereotype and poor understanding of Christianity are the only things that defy reason and logic.

Mind you, I laughed like a hyena when I saw this

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/03/26

I have been a game addict all my life... and I'm still enjoying it