Pirates overpowered? » Forum Post by _G-Force

So ok, I thought what's a couple of pirate ships right? How hard can it be??? WRONG, these pirates where everywhere with more ships and more powerfull than anything I had. As a result in the entire galaxy every none-pirate ship was destroyed along with all the starbases.

Finally! This is more like it.

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If the AI learns to fight the pirates as well, this doesn't sound so bad. I think fighting pirates should be a diplomatic treaty option. A level of alliance to fight crime. If you destroy pirates in the territory of a treaty partner, your relationship gets better.

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The same event happened to me, and at a most fortuitous time. The Arceans and Yor declared war, and a couple turns later I had the Pirates! mega-event. Needless to say, as a human player, I knew to avoid the pirates and every enemy planet was susceptible to invasion.

Devs: if it's possible to code, you should make the Pirates have ships that are somehow proportional to existing AI and player ship strengths/access to weapons technology. For example, if the event happens early in the game like mine, pirates should be relatively underpowered so that they're not the only game in town. Late game, match our strengths. After all, you want mega-events to be just that: attention-grabbing, not game-ending, events.

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Make the starbases the fortresses that they are everywhere in science fiction and the pirates won't be taking them out.

Real security is in economics. The overwhelming reason that the United States was not a victim of terrorism (as understood by Europeans) is because of the financial markets. All the terrorist groups (and pirates) hold their money here. Forget 9/11 and the utterly moronic jihadists, this financial security is still true today.

I think a nice addition to the pirate event would be to have their resources grow in relation to the empire economy that they occupy. Pirates aren't going to destroy economy bases in any time or dimensions. Economy bases have something almost as important as money. They have wenches.

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That's a good point. After all, pirates are in it to make money from easy marks/targets, not destroy. I'm all for them wanting to destroy resource bases for their OWN TAKING, but what would be the point unless they are a minor race with planets of their own. Nonetheless, in their current incarnation I think their relative power needs to be scaled so that players have a fighting chance.

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While I must say that finally pirates have some teeth and are something to be feared/dealt with, it does seem exploitative that one could send transports to planets after pirates messed with your neighbors.

I'm sure the Devs will get that cleared up.

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I also had the pirates! mega-event. In this case, I was eventually able to build ships that could take out the pirates, giving me the only navy in the game. I also had Galactic Priviteer, which meant that I had the only trade routes in the game. This allowed me to form alliances with all but one other civ despite the fact that I was neutral and they were all evil.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

having so many powerful pirate ships is strange.... more believable if it was a random invasion from some unknown race or the dreadlords

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I wish you could talk to them in the diplomatic screen.

I don't mean like "AAAAarrrrr, matey!"

but to make deals with them. The strength of the event is more like an invasion than a pirate infestation; I'd like to be able to give them a planet or two in exchange for a peace treaty, for instance.

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yea pirates are way overpowered. pirates should have the same ship strength as the strongest player when they arrive. as it is now its a game ender for me.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

yea pirates are way overpowered. pirates should have the same ship strength as the strongest player when they arrive. as it is now its a game ender for me.

I agree. Perhaps the invasion should have a condition that a certain level of technology is reached before it can take place?

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I would like to see that kind of mega invasion, on that scale, but with Dread Lord ships + many invasion troopers. That way, DL would be a real terror for everybody..

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I agree that the event as it now stands can be a "game ender." Perhaps I was just having a "Lemony Snicket" day, but after the pirates destroyed every single ship in the galaxy, and every starbase but one of mine, I finally built up my tech to get some ships that could at least begin to go up against them. Then I got the plague event. Discovered the cure. Then I got the economic event that inflicted a 25% tax income reduction. Then I got the disease event. Then, for some reason, my logistics went from 15 to zero. I don't know if that's a bug, or related to one of the events, but now I could not even combine my ships against the pirates. End of game, for sure.

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

I agree that the event as it now stands can be a "game ender." Perhaps I was just having a "Lemony Snicket" day, but after the pirates destroyed every single ship in the galaxy, and every starbase but one of mine, I finally built up my tech to get some ships that could at least begin to go up against them. Then I got the plague event. Discovered the cure. Then I got the economic event that inflicted a 25% tax income reduction. Then I got the disease event. Then, for some reason, my logistics went from 15 to zero. I don't know if that's a bug, or related to one of the events, but now I could not even combine my ships against the pirates. End of game, for sure.

The morol of the story boys and girls... when thing get tough, the tough get screwed tighter and tighter till its all over.

Hehehehe i don't think there is a single wise saying in existance that dousnt get crushed beneath the cruel reality of life.

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Well, every morol deserves at least one good moral.

Doesn't it?

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Mystikmind

Join Date 06/2004

+20

Well, every morol deserves at least one good moral.

Doesn't it?

Eh? my spelling of moral? yea i'm not sure morol is even a word??

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Just wanted to echo the OP's comments, and add a few others:

I agree that the "conquer everybody with fast transports" exploit should be remedied. Whether or not the pirates are too powerful is a separate issue (I've had them in several games, and only had them really destroy the game once. The other few times, I've managed to fight them off, but only with literally years of game time to clear my own sectors). My problem with the event is as follows:

I would emphasize what Wheeloffire and JonSarik said above -- the pirate behavior with this event is entirely un-pirate like. Pirates rely on the ratio of plundered resources to non-plundered resources being low enough that the economy and trade environment can survive. That is to say, as much as pirates take advantage of regular commerce and trade, they also rely on it. Pirates don't create wealth, they steal it, so they need other people to have the wealth so they can plunder it.

One or two pirates attacking trade lines is normal. A whole fleet of overpowering pirates annihilating everything in their path, galaxy-wide is something else entirely. Ordinary pirates wouldn't do that -- it wouldn't be sustainable. They'd smack all the military, trade, and transport ships, and then.. having nothing to plunder.

Since the pirates don't have the resources for planetary invasion, they couldn't be trying to take over worlds. One plausible situation, though, would be for the pirates to take over the trading lanes, then demand tribute. Civilizations who negotiated terms with them could resume their trade, transport, colonization etc. activities (at a presumably steep price that could involve money, ships, starbases, etc etc -- any kind of tribute), while civilizations who refused to deal with the pirates would be isolated on their worlds (unless they could successfully take on the pirates). The pirates could even be given the ability to "take over" some starbases, converting them into limited-use facilities for regrouping, refitting ships, etc. Pirates could be made a sort of special-circumstance faction or minor race, with their own rules and abilities.

Anyway, the possibilities are endless, but as MarshallONeil said above, in its current incarnation, the pirates mega-event is stuck somewhere between infestation and invasion. Too much firepower for casual pirates, not enough firepower to take over planets.

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I started playing a game yesterday, medium galaxy with 3 opponents. Since im a little nubie I set the difficulty on 'normal'. I played CalCivII on 'bright' but got bitchslapped a few times so wanted to take it easy with my first game in DA.

After I researched medium hulls and pumped out my first warvessels to start a war with the korx for building military starbases in my influence sphere I got the Pirate Event. I was by far the strongest Civ at that time and 3 turns at war with the korx (I wasn't strong but the AI was just alot weaker with only a handfull vessels each).

Korx best vessel : Att: 3/0/0 - Def: 0/0/0 - hp: 9/9 ( small hull)
Yor best vessel : Att: 2/0/0 - Def: 0/0/0 - hp: 9/9 ( small hull)
Altarian best vessel : Att: 2/0/0 - Def: 0/0/0 - hp: 9/9 (small hull)

(don't think any of the AI's had medium hulls yet)

My Best Vessel : Att: 0/0/12 - Def: 0/1/0 - hp: 24/24 (medium hull) (My choice for 0/1/0 was because the lack of room and missile defence being the cheapest def available at that time)

The pirates best ships: Att: 0/0/30 - Def: 0/0/5 - hp: 24/24 (medium hull).

The Pirates landed with around 8 to 9 fleets in my territory alone (i have 25% of the map). My fleet was no match to them and it got squashed like flies. Within 5 turns the korx surrendered to me because they lost their fleet (they made it sound like it was because of me). I thought the pirates only landed near me because I was the strongest, I was wrong. When the Korx surrendered to me and I got a good visual of their territory I noticed another 9 to 10 full fleets around their planets. I can only expect the same amounts of Pirates in the regions of the 2 remaining civs.

Within 20 turns of the pirate Event the 2nd event came. The Dreadlords had landed in the galaxy claiming 1 world in the Altarian region. The AI (normal ai) were unable to handle the pirates and just went numb. I continued researcher better technologies and so after x more turns I was able to start clearing Pirates. I've yet to start with the Dreadlords but all in all the game kinda died due the inability of the AI to overcome the pirates.

Allthough the AI was set to normal I think the Pirates are way overpowered. It took me alot of turns to get the technology needed to handle the pirate vessels and still I was burning around 2 ships for each pirate ship. The invasion should Scale with difficulty and the status of the civilizations ingame to prevent the game from dying. I have to admit that normal difficulty was perhaps a tad low (i could have set it max 1 or 2 higher) but someone playing a normal game because its his max should not have to fend of pirates like this which completely destroy all civs expect the human which can handle it in the long run.

My 2nd observation was the Carinoids (minor civ) who were present in the game. The pirates killed everything except for Carinoids vessels/traderoutes/starbases. It just passed them by like they weren't there. I wonder if this is Intended or an unforseen effect?

My 3rd observation was that the information provided by the techtree (about colonizing the harder worlds) was misleading in my opinion. The first research gives a colinize bonus of 50% which gave me the idea that a PQ12-planet would give me 6 available tiles until I researched the next one (advanced). Instead I got 12 tiles but a 50% reduction in production which doesn't really match the description in the techtree. Perhaps a better description of what the tech actually means in the techtree would be nice (this is only about the colonizing of new worlds techs)

Thnx for reading and I hope this feedback helps a bit

Greetingz

Zwelgje

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Eh? my spelling of moral? yea i'm not sure morol is even a word??

It's not.

And your use of 'yea' is misplaced as well.
The correct spelling should be 'yeah'.

Yea is pronounced with a long 'a' - yA, while yeah is pronounced with a short 'a' - ya.

Yea is more commonly used as a 'yes' vote during an oral vote.

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Perhaps the pirate event should take a percentage of each civilizations ships and starbases based on their trade/tourism income with the wealthiest civilizations getting more pirates than those with little trade.

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Had this event several times, and when it killed off all my trade routes, economy starbases and morale mining stuff I was doomed. -1000 bc income per month with no expendature and a 23% approval with tax at 0%...

Okay, I might have done something wrong to begin with, but my game was going well (remember, this was just after the colony rush) with 75% approval and steady income of about 1500 bc/week with expendature maxed out....

I like the event, but not as crippling as it's currently is.

Only had one game in which, eventually, I could slay them all, and then I got taken over by another civ, cause I left my planets open (to busy concentrating on eliminating the threat).

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Pirates mega event is ok in my book, it does what a mega even shoud which is totally tilts the balance of the game. Now my only problem is that (atleast in current beta) the human player is the only one actively fighting the pirates.

I have had couple of these Pirates events and they have killed everything in their path. But I have always managed to wipe them out eventually and win the game. So basicly Iam echoing some of the writers here.

I only hope the devs change this mega events name. It could be something like "Beings from 3rd dimension invade!" or something like that. Anything else but the pirates please

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I've been wondering about "What is Mega Events, really?"

Therein lies the answer. Answer that and you also have your answer about the pirates.
It does shake the universe upside down, maybe it does what it supposed to.

My concern lies with exploiting it, and preventing exploits. I will share my christmas game with you -

This game I had plague, pirates, jagged knife, and dread lords. Holy Crap! I rallied myself out of it, but the AI was just crippled. I beelined to the cure, I also buffed up my weapons and defence research. I mass produced some ships to fight the pirates. I rushed the galactic privateer. I had lots of failures against the pirates but to my knowledge none other was able to dent a fleet of pirates. I would whittle them down. One of my fleets could maybe take out a ship in their fleet if I was lucky. Dread Lords... well I left them alone since they weren't near me.

I went on to conquer whomever I wanted. Population was down either from the plague active or recovering from it. Which meant less transports required. Nearly no defenses thanks to pirates. Many times I busted pirate fleet on my way to invade their worlds. I did not have to mess with the DL. I went for a cheap victory on influence.

My point, if I can do it. Someone else can duplicate it.

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Holy heck!

I thought there could be only one mega event in a single game. I have had in my every game a single mega event and no more. Perhaps this is due to my game setup, which is always a medium map so games tend to be short.

I really do hope SD can pull mega events off and make them balanced. As they are, mega events tend to criple AI and give human player an easy victory. Frogboy is going to have his hands full this january

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The pirates tend to show up later in my games when i've established several trade routes....which end up being the main targets. They don't tend to pick fights with my fleets(mostly comprised of Capital ships) but they do end up gunning down every freighter I build. They are grossly overpowerder though(my fleets have 24 logistics right now and they have something around 40+), and I can't seem to fight back. Although they do tend to dissapear after a while.

-Spencer

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