AI broken by economic rebalance?

Settings: Suicidal, Huge, Abundant all, normal research

I am concerned that the economic rebalance seems to be killing some of the computer AI’s under some conditions. I suspect that they are being overwhelmed by morale/economic problems…My theory is that they are out teching and out expanding their support capacity.

The reason I think this is that some races late into my games seem to reach a point where they can not grow their population, and where they seem to be unable to put out significant numbers of new ships (especially compared to 1.2 and earlier). This is more likely to be true of any race that failed to secure a morale or economic resource.

For example: My current game (version 1.4) is early 2228. I just finished off the humans in late 2227/early 2228. Most of their planets had populations at less than a billion, some at less than 200 million. Some of their planets were completely undefended, but most of their planets did have significant development. One planet had 88 million people, 2 Industrial sectors and some other miscellaneous development. This planet had been colonized for a while, so clearly the humans had been unable to grow the population. I am about to attack the Korx. When I checked their planets, the majority are still at less than a billion people! If I look to the north the Drengin are in a similar situation. A small smattering of good ships, but half their planets are undefended. This is not war attrition. I have been a party to all wars so far, except the one the Krox just started against the Altarian remnant (I already took all but 3 or 4 of their planets). Not everyone is crippled though, the Thalans seem to be doing just fine.

I never saw anything like the above scenario pre 1.31. I have seen it in my one 1.31 game and again in the 1.4 game I just started. I would love to think that I am sooo good that the computer just can’t make a showing, but frankly, I’m not!

My theory: What I think is happening is that the planets are being developed beyond the economic capacity of the computer race. A simple case of too many planets/buildings, too high of a tech level, and not enough people/income? How much of a deficit is being generated by that 88 million person planet in the example above? So the computer is simply using almost all of it resources to maintain what it has already built. Most of these planets still have extra squares, so any extra cash that may develop is immediately burned up by dropping down more buildings…I think playing on Suicidal and a Huge map may both be contributing to the problem. The computer is colonizing for longer and since it has a higher research development rate, it is putting advanced structures down on a large number of planets that have very little population.

Has anyone else experienced this?

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I've also noticed this at Tough with larger galaxies. Most AI's get into extreme economic difficulty. When I try to tech trade with them, often I find that they have under 1000 bc after 2 or 3 game years. I suspect that you have correctly analyzed the problem.

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Good trade point.

I have also seen AI's with negative 2-3K on the trade screen, very late into the game as well.

I should note. Not all of the AI's hit this wall. The difference between the ones who do and the ones who don't can be startling.

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I have had no problems as of yet although they are suffering very badly moral wise and seem to research to much into farm techs and in my games overpopulate their planets so much that their moral is too low to tax much(economic problems) and leads to me being able to flip planets very easily.

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I haven't seen this on my v1.31 game. Every planet that I've seen other than very low PQ planets have at least 5B, a fair amount have in the 12B range. The AI's have been aggressive and have had no shortage of ships, however, I have had the economic properity event for a good portion of the game, perhaps that accounts for the difference.

I do see some other funny stuff. In particular I do see a *lot* of planets undefended, probably about half. Invariably, these undefended planets have an Oribtal Fleet Manager and no Starport. Very strange.

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I would think if this is the case that the AI would be more affected at the lower difficulty levels. It is difficult to understand how the suicidal AI has economic difficulty with a 200% bonus to *everything*.

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Philocthetes

Join Date 10/2003

+153

I'm still kind of lost as to why an AI (or human for that matter) would want to build those Orbital Fleet thingies at all.

Perhaps that's because I share Mumble's basic tactic of keeping fleets in space to facilitate rapid response to AI aggression. But given my conservative tendencies about going on large scale offensives, I've never seen the OFM improvement as anything other than a way to get more attacks per turn from my high speed fleets. So I try not to return the favor and never build the things.

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I think it's because it is getting too far ahead in its tech compared to the economy and colonization stage of the game. The 200% bonus is being overwhelmed by the Industrial sectors it is putting down. Mind, I am not sure about what is causing this…

I commonly stop colonizing once higher level industrial techs start becoming available and avoid actually getting them until I have some industrial capacity going on most planets. This effectively limits my industrial base to something my economy can handle and gives me some extra time to grow my populace. The computer doesn’t back off…

I’m tempted to try a very fast research game and see if the computer completely cripples itself with too much advanced tech. Just thinking about having Industrial sectors halfway through the colony rush makes my head hurt. I was hoping someone out there had already tried this, or had a better explanation.

Mumble, when are you checking out the populations on the planets? If you are further out on the timeline, that might do it.

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O yes if the AI goes for the factory techs to early(in most cases they do) then their whole economy stalls like crazy dont know how it would effect population though.

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I need to make a correction, I made the original post when I wasn't at the game computer. The dates above should be 2226/2227, not 2227/2228.

Also, looking closer at the Drengin. One star system has a 6B planet next to two planets with less than a billion people. I see the same kind of thing in other locales. Maybe the computer is just sending out all but empty colony ships under some circumstances.

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